No camping near the creeks (Colorado Springs, Lakewood: low income, to rent, homes)

[Vision67]

Colorado Springs City Council gives final approval to creekside camping ban

https://gazette.com/news/colorado-sp...150ce71dd.html

"Countless homeless people across Colorado Springs have two weeks to pick up stakes and move after the City Council gave final approval Tuesday to a crackdown on creekside camping.

The deadline comes after the council reaffirmed its decision last month to ban camping within 100 feet of city waterways and concrete drainage canals. The vote, by a 6-2 margin, capped months of debate on how to improve local streams and creeks, amid concerns that such a ban would unfairly target homeless people.

The new ordinance takes effect July 23 — adding another layer of legal peril for homeless people in a city that already bans camping on public property."

I really doubt that we have enough police officers to enforce this. But heck, violators could get free room and board.

"Violators of the new ordinance could face up to $2,500 in fines and 180 days in jail."

[Miss Hepburn]

I heard...Where could they camp?
I live close enough to a couple creeks and there are convenience stores fairly close...so that every day I see at least 1 male with a shopping cart coming 'from somewhere and going somewhere'...as they stop to get cigarettes, I guess, and maybe use the facilities.

They always have a rolled up pad and obvious sleeping gear.
I am nowhere close to any food places like the Marion House.
They don't seem to look anyone in the eyes, cause no trouble.
Haha, yesterday I did see one washing his feet on a building's sprinkler after walking on hot tar...where were his shoes?

What the heck to do? Some are mentally handicapped you can tell...some are mentally fine.
What to do, what to do...

[Vision67]

There is no solution that doesn't require money.

For most families the best solution is for the successful members of the family to subsidize those with need. I have observed a lot of that going on now because the next generation is struggling with high rents and student debt.

But if your family is unable or unwilling to help...you're screwed.

[DrDog]

Originally Posted by Vision67

There is no solution that doesn't require money.

For most families the best solution is for the successful members of the family to subsidize those with need. I have observed a lot of that going on now because the next generation is struggling with high rents and student debt.

But if your family is unable or unwilling to help...you're screwed.

While I’m sure you are right about many of these people, a large number of them are just not interested in working for a living and prefer to get by on whatever handouts they can get.

[Mike from back east]

Many years ago there used to be 'poor farms' where the dirt poor could get 3 hots and a cot in exchange for some manual labor, usually in the Ag sector. Long gone. Don't know the answer but for sure any answer requires effort and some financing.

I'm no expert on homelessness, but I think the nature of the homeless population may have shifted. Maybe not. Maybe the old style dirt poor types weren't all that honest either, maybe I'm just viewing the old timers through history's gauzy nostalgic lens. Maybe societal conventions on being poor have changed too and people no longer feel the pressure to contribute some good for their daily bread. Maybe we no longer see being poor as a natural state of affairs like we did 100+ years ago when just about everyone was poor.

Some of the homeless I'm seeing don't seem to be merely the old style dirt poor person looking to do an honest day's work in exchange for basic survival needs; honest hard working types usually manage to get by, the immigrants with no safety net get by, millions of them. They got by in the teeming slums of NYC a hundred years ago and today immigrants get by in our cities everywhere, millions of them.

I'm sure a portion of the homeless are just devil may care types bumming around the country having a hoot on the generosity of strangers. Many others are mental cases to some extent, another subset are substance abusers; it's a real mix of things, there's no one size fits all fix to this.

I see little public effort, no one wants to pay taxes to support the poor. Governments at all levels are handcuffed by lack of tax revenue and some states and cities will simply choose to ignore the issues and give people bus tickets to places that will help them; a case of beggar thy neighbor.

That leaves the church, some of which have stepped up but it depends on which denomination and which congregations take it upon themselves to make a difference. Too many churches have ignored the poor for decades in favor of a politically charged effort to end abortion. Televangelists plead for more money to buy $80M corporate jets. The poor be damned....along with the rest of us slackers. Seems a lot of religion is just a show these days; maybe that's why attendance is down.

If churches nationwide made it their calling to help the homeless, especially with some partnership efforts by government, it could go a long way. "The church" could get some donated land from government or private owners and some seed money with which to run poor farms. Locate these around most major cities and use modern greenhouse and irrigation methods to grow notable amounts of vegetables and herbs for local consumption. I'd pay a handsome price for a truly vine ripe burpee beefsteak tomato, not the damned mealy orange orbs that modern massive agriculture ships halfway across the country to a store near you.

So, this 'poor farm' idea is the best answer I can come up with, back to the future. Get government mostly out of the way to get people off the streets and doing something productive in exchange for their survival needs and that will raise their own sense of self worth and restore some people to a modestly gratifying existence. If only....

I'm not hopeful as weakened churches and impotent governments limp into a hazy future....arguing over who can pee in which restroom....

[Educator1982]

[quote=DrDog;52459140]While I’m sure you are right about many of these people, a large number of them are just not interested in working for a living and prefer to get by on whatever handouts they can get.[/QUOTE

I think you are correct. Some may have mental health issues, but then there is a handful that would not work. I feel for them but it's quite depression to walk/drive by and see this.

[StealthRabbit]

don't become another Portland Oregon (shelter to the homeless such that businesses are forced to leave the city. (Tired of scooping poop from their front doors)

even tho Portland established Dignity Village 20 yrs age (a certified homeless camp / village), they keep coming by the trainload. 2 yrs ago Mayor allowed free camping in Parks and traffic circles on freeways (sometimes >200 in one freeway camp) They keep coming... Now the residents are having to flee. (2) coworkers (lifelong Portland folks) had to rent their homes and move away for the safety of their children. The families had had their wheels and tires stolen 3x this yr (standard tires, nothing fancy. Come out to go to work and car is sitting REAL LOW! (on the hubs). A lot of bother to live in such a place.

Portland tried to use a brand new 400 bed jail for homeless, but they threw fit. And instead wanted a warehouse with no transit or bathrooms. and disruptive to 24/7 commerce.

[Vision67]

Originally Posted by StealthRabbit

don't become another Portland Oregon (shelter to the homeless such that businesses are forced to leave the city. (Tired of scooping poop from their front doors)

even tho Portland established Dignity Village 20 yrs age (a certified homeless camp / village), they keep coming by the trainload. 2 yrs ago Mayor allowed free camping in Parks and traffic circles on freeways (sometimes >200 in one freeway camp) They keep coming... Now the residents are having to flee. (2) coworkers (lifelong Portland folks) had to rent their homes and move away for the safety of their children. The families had had their wheels and tires stolen 3x this yr (standard tires, nothing fancy. Come out to go to work and car is sitting REAL LOW! (on the hubs). A lot of bother to live in such a place.

Portland tried to use a brand new 400 bed jail for homeless, but they threw fit. And instead wanted a warehouse with no transit or bathrooms. and disruptive to 24/7 commerce.

And that's the fundamental problem with handouts.

Have you ever tried feeding pigeons? More show up.

[CatPeople]

Saw cardboard sign guy at the exit in Lakewood eating out of a leftover Chinese food container that someone gave him. Nice sight. In Philly, skinny as can be girl relishing a Snickers bar. Florida, an apple handed out the window. The older ones, I sometimes give a dollar, but the kids, no. You get a Clif bar if you are polite.

[Sonic_Spork]

Fyi to anyone who has young adult relatives who are struggling to "launch" or knows anybody in this situation...

(Hoping to maybe help prevent some of the homeless problem with a piece of advice here.)

My 19 year old was not very motivated to start college or get a job or figure out how to adult. So I signed him up for Job Corps. They take kids age 16-24. It is a "low income" program but if your kid is 18+ it is only THEIR income that counts. It's free. Completely free. Free transport to the location, free room and board and small living stipend, free vocational training. FREE. They even do free driver's ed, and help kids finish high school if needed. Did I mention free?

My boy is in Montana learning to be a welder now. Welders make decent money. They have lots of programs, from various blue collar trade work to IT, healthcare, culinary arts, etc.

Thing is...rules are strict, no drugs/alcohol/smoking/fighting/weapons. It isn't involuntary, the kid has to be willing to be there. If they don't follow the rules and do what they're supposed to, they'll get sent home.

But if you've got basically a decent but kind of unmotivated kid who needs a push...it's a really good way for them to get that push.

I know way too many people who don't even know that this exists.