overwhelmed w/ where to go in COS!!! (Colorado Springs, Fountain: fit in, real estate)

[sbmgfarr]

my husband and i are being stationed in COS (at shreiver afb) in july 2008 and are trying to buy our FIRST HOME (AHHHH). i have been on the internet for days straight to find where we should live. there are so many threads and posts and websites that im starting to dream about them at night!
what i really need help with is where to buy our home. we plan on purchasing something that will fit us and what we can afford now, but are trying to plan for the future as well. we know we can sell it and move up the ladder to our dream home in CO, but have a lot of circumstances limiting us now.
1.) we will probably have to sell it in 4 years (either from getting restationed or trying to get a nicer home). what areas would sell well?
2.) need a good school district (for our own kids, 4, 6, 8; good for resale) i know 12, 20 are best. ive been told to stay away from 2 because neighborhoods have highest crime
3.) need a good neighborhood, safe, warm and inviting ( i know the good school areas, but does that mean they are good neighborhoods??)
4.) can only afford $160,000 for a loan (until i finish college, which i am looking into UCCS, as my credits will transfer there)

its very important to us that we will be happy there as well as be able to sell it again. we are trying to stay long term in COS so that we can retire there, but as we all know, the ultimate boss is the military on that one!

we lived in alaska for 7 years, so snow does NOT bother us, we would like it to be naturous (LOVE the woods), but it has to be around 1/2 hours drive to the base (shreiver).
the townhome route is kind of unappealing to us; we've lived in the cookie-cuter houses on base for 7 years and although nice family situations, extremely boring and lacks creativity. plus, there is no where to park our rv and dont have extra money to put it in a lot or something.

we are working secretly (SHH!!) with a few different realtors, but all of them seem to be trying to sell us one of their homes on the list instead of the areas we need. they are focusing on our price range instead of our "wants".

i know this is lenthy and detailed, but i hope that someone can help us since we are nowhere near the area to see it first, have never been there to get a feel for the different sections of COS, and have a limited amount of time to find a home before we are on "HOMELESS STATUS" ( temporary housing is only 30 days, the onbase houses are not ready yet and we dont want to try and rent for a few months, as we are doing that now and its severely draining what little money we have saved for a home).
thank you so very much for your help on this; its helping us for our future and our childrens lives!

[Vision67]

Why not just rent? In 4 years you might not have enough appreciation in a home to break even. RE prices will most likely keep falling for 2 years and then go flat.

It's likely cheaper to rent.

[sbmgfarr]

well, to be honest, we really want to have our own home. it would be nice to buy one now to make our own. i should restate that we "might" have to relocate instead of "probably" have to relocate. we should stay there for a few tours ( once stationed in the lower 48 states, they keep you there unless you are needed more somewhere else). this and surrounding bases are head hub for my husbands job, so i dont forsee us moving. we really want to settle down there and it looks like a good time for someone with limited money (like us) to start the home buying journey.
when i stated we would resell in a few years, thats only if we are making enough where we could get a bigger, better home on more land. (or if we get sent to a different base ). but our main concern now is getting a livable home in a great area for our kids and that it is in an appealing area for resale if and when the time comes.

[Charles]

Originally Posted by sbmgfarr

we know we can sell it and move up the ladder to our dream home in CO, ....trying to get a nicer home).

First thing: You can't move up unless one or more of these things happen: You didn't buy the most home you could afford in the first place (you bought a Nissan but you can afford a Mercedes), You expect to make significantly more money (so you can qualify for a larger loan), You expect to come into money (so you can produce a bigger down payment), you own the home for such a long time that you build a significant about of equity by paying off the loan (basically saving money which can be used later for a bigger down payment), interest rates go down significantly (so you can borrow more for the same monthly payment), or you move to a location where housing is cheaper (so you get more house for your money).

Moving up due to home price appreciation alone is a myth, because everything else moves up too and taxes are higher when you move up.

What is your price range for a home?

In your situation I might look at Briargate area (District 20). It is not far, good schools (probably the number one factor which determines resale), wide range of homes, maybe $200K to $1M+ (though I don't know your budget), and it is very popular with people with kids who work at Schriever (I work at Schriever).

I have heard good things and OK things about D49 in the Falcon area. One advantage of Falcon is that it is the closest neighborhood to Schriever (Stetson Hills is pretty close too). I drive through Falcon every day. Falcon is sort of up and coming and I don't think there are a lot of things for kids to do there. Briargate is fully developed with lots of amenities for kids :YMCA, skate parks, gyms, movies, parks, sports leagues, etc.

Someone recommended renting. Not sure if buying and selling in four years is a net positive financial experience. Not sure how much assistance (for example realtor expenses) the government provides. If you have to pay everything, I can't imagine you'd make money by buying and selling in four years as that transition typically costs 8%-10% of the house price. You'd have to do the math on this considering appreciation, interest write offs, and all the typical buy versus rent arithmetic. With renting you get no tax write off but you have no selling expenses. I think rents are increasing because foreclosures are increasing thus increasing demand for rentals by people who got booted out of their homes.

So, quick and dirty answer, look at homes in Briargate or zip 80920.

D12 schools are good but the drive from there wouldn't be good as it is an east-west commute, lots of lights, no thoroughfares or expressways, also no school bus service for some reason.

If you want a cool graphical tool for school data check this out:


Colorado School Performance Maps

[sbmgfarr]

thank you, that helps. we are planning to buy what we can afford now (which isnt much), but anticipate bigger and better down the road when i finish school (about 3 years), as well as a better interest rate as time goes on (currently i have 6%). we have been aproved for a $175,000 loan, but in reality, we can afford at $160,000 home. i now know we cant expect to make a huge profit solely on owning a home for just a few years. but i was advised by family who have "climbed the homebuying ladder" that now would be a good time to buy, as prices will being to climb once again in the future and we can come out even or better if we HAD to sell in four years (even if it takes two-three years to go back to normal).
the website helps a lot as far as viewing areas to look into.
for some reason, i keep getting pulled into fountain. the schools look really good, the homes look affordable (to people like us), we can get to the base easily; just all around, it seems calm and homely. has the town been there forever? do think the kids would like it there? would we fit in? and lastly what are the homes like there? do you know how the older homes were built?
P.S. i am looking into Briargate as you read this!! lol

[suzco]

Originally Posted by sbmgfarr

thank you, that helps. we are planning to buy what we can afford now (which isnt much), but anticipate bigger and better down the road when i finish school (about 3 years), as well as a better interest rate as time goes on (currently i have 6%). we have been aproved for a $175,000 loan, but in reality, we can afford at $160,000 home. i now know we cant expect to make a huge profit solely on owning a home for just a few years. but i was advised by family who have "climbed the homebuying ladder" that now would be a good time to buy, as prices will being to climb once again in the future and we can come out even or better if we HAD to sell in four years (even if it takes two-three years to go back to normal).
the website helps a lot as far as viewing areas to look into.
for some reason, i keep getting pulled into fountain. the schools look really good, the homes look affordable (to people like us), we can get to the base easily; just all around, it seems calm and homely. has the town been there forever? do think the kids would like it there? would we fit in? and lastly what are the homes like there? do you know how the older homes were built?
P.S. i am looking into Briargate as you read this!! lol

If you do a search in the Colorado Springs forum, there's information to be found about Fountain.

Among the threads that discuss Fountain:
Colorado Springs, Fountain, Peyton, etc?
Perception of Fountain?
Confused about Fountain area

[froggin4colorado]

D8/Fountain has good schools. Granted, we aren't a wealthy neighborhood like D12, D20, and D38 but we do have good schools. In the past, our school district has been known for the highest salaries for teachers resulting in the recruitment of great teachers. Our old superintendent is now up in CDE- Dwight Jones. Heritage and Countryside are good neighborhoods. I especially like Heritage because of the hospitality/down to Earth people. The majority of families are middle class to upper middle class and we have a mix of civilian and military.
Being an educator and have networked with a variety of educators across the Front Range region for years, we are all using the same curricula for the most part. The biggest difference among schools is not the schools/curricula/teachers but the type of families who attend. We all know that educated parents who care about their child's education will do better in school. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to know that the higher socioeconomic areas will have the higher performing schools. This is one of my soap boxes...I apologize. We all want a good education for our kids and when individuals ask for good schools, define a good school.
Stay away from low socioeconomic and high crime areas-- D2 and parts of D11. If you want to avoid overcrowding in the school, stay away from D49 (but they have great teachers, curriculum, and students), if you want the newest high tech classrooms, go to D20, if you want your child to be surrounded by wealth, go to D12. Otherwise, all the districts in the area are decent and teachers are for the most part- good. Be an active parent in whatever school your child attends and hand pick your teachers and be an advocate for your child while teaching him/her to advocate for themselves.

Maybe we should create a thread that specifically talks about the problems that each district deals with and let people choose their problems...
Overcrowding
Materialism
High socioeconomics
Budgeting
Low teacher salaries and benefits
Homework policies/issues
Poor safety and lack of dress codes
Anti-special education
Poor leadership
A lot of snow days


And then also point out areas of strengths...
Diversity
RTi and RTI
Autism friendly (ABA)
Strong leadership
Teacher: student ratios
Elective choices
State of the art buildings
Highest paid teachers
Fewest snow days
Extra-curricular activities

[Bob from down south]

Originally Posted by sbmgfarr

thank you, that helps. we are planning to buy what we can afford now (which isnt much), but anticipate bigger and better down the road when i finish school (about 3 years), as well as a better interest rate as time goes on (currently i have 6%). we have been aproved for a $175,000 loan, but in reality, we can afford at $160,000 home. i now know we cant expect to make a huge profit solely on owning a home for just a few years. but i was advised by family who have "climbed the homebuying ladder" that now would be a good time to buy, as prices will being to climb once again in the future and we can come out even or better if we HAD to sell in four years (even if it takes two-three years to go back to normal).
the website helps a lot as far as viewing areas to look into.

I would be VERY careful as to whom you're taking counsel from w/r/t real estate issues these days. The flawed and outdated conventional wisdom imbedded in the advice you mention here could put you well behind the eightball.

First, consider that interest rates are close to 30-year lows today. I don't believe that any assumption that they will fall significantly from here is a good one...historically interest rates are closer to 8%, so plan on the equally likely (more likely IMHO) event that future interest rates will be markedly higher--not lower--when you want or need to sell.

As to prices climbing again in the future...the key consideration is just how far into the future that appreciation will begin again. We are coming off a disastrous RE bubble situation that has houses tremendously overvalued by historical standards. Add to that the known wave of millions of defaulting subprime, Alt-A, pay-option arm, interest-only and other toxic financial time-bombs through 2012, and you may well find that Colorado Springs housing values fall 10-20% more in the next 2-4 years and then remain flat...maybe for as long as 5-10 more years, as happened in the 90s in Southern California after a much less-pronounced bubble. Your 4-year time horizon looks to put you right into the danger zone, from my perspective.

I didn't see any mention of down payment. If you go with a low down-payment loan (i.e. VA) this aforementioned continued fall in housing values could leave you upside down (owing more than the value of the house) making it very, very difficult to get out from under your mortgage when you want/need to sell in the future. And when time comes to "move up the ladder" you will have to spend upwards of 10% more still to sell and acquire another one (realtor fees, closing costs, points, etc). If you rent now and wait until 4 years from now to buy that "move-up" house, you save yourself all that expense and risk. The downside odds far outstrip the upside chances of any significant appreciation net of expenses.

The "homebuying ladder" is burning right now...why climb on it if you don't have to?

The dream of homeownership is a real siren's call, and not a good idea for many people, especially right now, no matter what a realtor hovering over you waiting to collect a hefty commission would have you believe.

So many people who made the same decision a few years ago now find themselves in utter disbelief that their dream of homeownership has turned into the slavery of excess homeowership instead.

Tread carefully, and good luck.

[sbmgfarr]

oh thankyouthankyouthankyouthankyou!!! you all are helping me so much. you can only do so much research; you really need to get info from people who live there, have seen it, and smelled it (haha)
so i guess i have narrowed it down to good areas, and partially to what areas we can afford. now the tricky part....... finding a house! (ill tell you, i found my dreamhouse, only to see it was in cripple creek! my hubby did not budge on the 2 hour drive to work, even though i begged and pleaded. better off though, id have to drive forever to get the kids to school and even farther to the grocery store! if only the house were in fountain.... sniffle)
i think i will focus heavily on the fountain area and save the monument area for when i finish my degree and make more money.
so look in Heritage, crosscreek, countryside, oakwood, and by the appletree golfcourse?
these homes are newer and in a better area of Fountain?

[sbmgfarr]

"Your 4-year time horizon looks to put you right into the danger zone, from my perspective. "

hmmm. so, in your opinion, you think its not a GOOD time to buy, its a BAD BAD BAD time to buy? i am thinking of when we lived in alaska, when we first got there 7 years ago. the apr was at 1% and we didnt buy. it rose and rose as we paid more than enough in rent each month for 7 years. now that the rates are low again in our next state, and we have a chance to come out with a home, we feel like we cant say no. we just dont want to dump thousands of dollars a year again into rent when those thousands could go into our OWN HOME (and in a state and area we want to retire in). am i really being naive? and im not asking that to be a sm*rt*ss, really, so am i hoping too high?