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Old 05-27-2008, 10:57 PM
 
Location: High up on a Mountain,NorCal
3 posts, read 11,151 times
Reputation: 12

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Any information would be helpful...I have friends a family of six four kids oldest 12. They live in Colorado and recently installed two ventless heating systems in their home (natural gas). They have a 1800sqft home w/low ceilings. This past winter I heard of a problem they were experiencing w/oldest daughter being sick after several doctor visits and tests they found nothing? We are from Cali and this past April we visited them and stayed in their home...I noticed one heater placed in the living room w/ reasonable fresh air from front door and the other placed in the L part off an L hall closer to the oldests bedroom in which we stayed in. So hot very uncomfortable I felt like their was no air I opened the bathroom window and the daughters windows just to get air to sleep. It didn't dawn on me and my husband untill recently that might be why their daughter was sick most of the winter. Their other three daughters share rooms that are in more direct local of ventilation not in a back corner of their home were their oldests room is and closest to the heater. And I noticed a funky smell like gas comming from their heater. Does any one have anything to add to my concerns or does anyone know of anybody that has experience with these types of heaters? If so I would apreciate your input.
Thank you!
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Old 05-27-2008, 11:03 PM
 
11,715 posts, read 40,314,839 times
Reputation: 7585
Get them a CO detector. They're cheap and anyone who has an open flame in their house should have at least one.
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Old 05-28-2008, 07:09 AM
 
Location: Woodland Park
188 posts, read 930,782 times
Reputation: 104
I had chronic low level carbon monoxide poisoning one winter because my room was next to a furnace with a cracked heat exchanger. I felt terrible on waking up every morning and had a headache the first part of the day. Started feeling better after getting out and about during the day and felt worse again every night. Now I realize I could have died. I didn't have a carbon monoxide detector then but would never live without one now for that reason. Buy them one and mail it to them and insist they use it, you may save their lives.
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Old 05-29-2008, 09:38 PM
 
Location: Colorado Springs, CO
2,221 posts, read 5,248,054 times
Reputation: 1703
Last time I lived in Europe, USAREUR was averaging a family a winter turning up dead due to CO poisoning from unvented flash heaters in the houses. They finally prohibited rental of any house with one to US military people.

As EscapeCalifornia points out, put CO detectors in any house with a gas appliance inside. That's detectors, plural. Nobody should be one 9v battery failure away from the grim reaper.

Best that those appliances aren't in the living space. My current house has four gas flash heaters, but they're in an ouside vented utility room.
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Old 10-01-2008, 05:24 PM
 
1 posts, read 5,250 times
Reputation: 10
Default ventless heaters and moisture problems

I heard that in new constuction on an addition to you house that ventless heaters cause moisture problems. I would like any info that I can get on this problem.
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Old 11-22-2008, 10:07 PM
 
1 posts, read 5,022 times
Reputation: 10
Please look into a device called a Carbon Monoxide Analyzer and one called a Pulse CO oxymeter. I have had CO poisoning on two separate occasions, once from a water heater and later from a furnace. It is not as uncommon as people seem to think. CO detectors only detect above 30 ppm but 10 ppm is enough to damage over time ( [url]http://www.ct.gov/dph/LIB/dph/environmental_health/EOHA/pdf/co.pdf[/url] ). The CO analyzer will detect any amount in the air and the pulse CO-oxymeter (make sure it includes CO) will tell if you have it in your system. Also, a lot of sites say that one indicator is if everyone in the household is feeling the symptoms, but this is not true. CO can accumulate in different concentrations at different areas of the house causing maybe even just one member to be exposed enough for symptoms.
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Old 11-23-2008, 05:11 PM
 
214 posts, read 1,307,065 times
Reputation: 130
I removed one of these units from a home I rent in Canon. I was shocked to see that anyone would consider these acceptable heating units. Like turning on the gas range....Some counties and cities outlaw them for good reason.

I guess if the older homes don't seal up well and have a ton of fresh air feeding them you might consider them ok.
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Old 09-04-2019, 05:11 AM
 
2 posts, read 1,528 times
Reputation: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by monteginger View Post
Any information would be helpful...I have friends a family of six four kids oldest 12. They live in Colorado and recently installed two ventless heating systems in their home (natural gas). They have a 1800sqft home w/low ceilings. This past winter I heard of a problem they were experiencing w/oldest daughter being sick after several doctor visits and tests they found nothing? We are from Cali and this past April we visited them and stayed in their home...I noticed one heater placed in the living room w/ reasonable fresh air from front door and the other placed in the L part off an L hall closer to the oldests bedroom in which we stayed in. So hot very uncomfortable I felt like their was no air I opened the bathroom window and the daughters windows just to get air to sleep. It didn't dawn on me and my husband untill recently that might be why their daughter was sick most of the winter. Their other three daughters share rooms that are in more direct local of ventilation not in a back corner of their home were their oldests room is and closest to the heater. And I noticed a funky smell like gas comming from their heater. Does any one have anything to add to my concerns or does anyone know of anybody that has experience with these types of heaters? If so I would apreciate your input.
Thank you!
Yes I got carbon monoxide poisoning from my home I rented. Because she is getting some ventalation. She can be getting carbon monoxide poisoning. You can't smell it. I live in Cali. If the doctors aren't taking any blood. They won't know what it is. If there isn't a carbon monoxide detector in the house that works. She may be getting poisoned..
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Old 09-05-2019, 11:58 AM
 
26,115 posts, read 48,712,075 times
Reputation: 31492
Relocated this thread from COLO SPGS to HOUSE where it will get more attention as the issue is not generic to just one city or state. Thank you.
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Old 09-05-2019, 01:44 PM
 
23,517 posts, read 69,907,878 times
Reputation: 48875
Quote:
Originally Posted by monteginger View Post
Any information would be helpful...I have friends a family of six four kids oldest 12. They live in Colorado and recently installed two ventless heating systems in their home (natural gas). They have a 1800sqft home w/low ceilings. This past winter I heard of a problem they were experiencing w/oldest daughter being sick after several doctor visits and tests they found nothing? We are from Cali and this past April we visited them and stayed in their home...I noticed one heater placed in the living room w/ reasonable fresh air from front door and the other placed in the L part off an L hall closer to the oldests bedroom in which we stayed in. So hot very uncomfortable I felt like their was no air I opened the bathroom window and the daughters windows just to get air to sleep. It didn't dawn on me and my husband untill recently that might be why their daughter was sick most of the winter. Their other three daughters share rooms that are in more direct local of ventilation not in a back corner of their home were their oldests room is and closest to the heater. And I noticed a funky smell like gas comming from their heater. Does any one have anything to add to my concerns or does anyone know of anybody that has experience with these types of heaters? If so I would apreciate your input.
Thank you!
First, recognize that correlation does not equal causation. At best, it implies causation that needs further inspection. Otherwise it gets silly:

https://www.tylervigen.com/spurious-correlations

Second, in reductive reasoning as many possibilities as can be found get checked out and ruled out.
Sample questions might be:
Does the eldest daughter do drugs?
Does she have a genetic difference?
Is her diet different?
Are her activities significantly different?
(I could go on for pages, but the point is not to completely fixate on a single causal suspect until all have been at least cursorily examined.)

Third, Colorado elevations compared to California average elevations suggest that breathing issues in those susceptible may be exacerbated simply by the move.

The amount of carbon MONoxide given off by a properly functioning space heater is infinitesimally small. The conversion of natural gas to carbon DIoxide and water is the way the way the reaction (combustion) works when there is sufficient oxygen available.

All of the above said, there are concerns with the setup you describe. The way you describe it, the heater is pressed into over-use and heating the air above normal levels, and in a confined space. Hot air is less dense than colder air. Hot air therefore contains less oxygen than cooler air. The air in the confined area that has been overheated also contains more carbon dioxide waste product. You can see where this is going - less and less oxygen both to burn and to breathe.

I would be surprised if there WASN'T a somewhat increased carbon monoxide level in that situation. New heaters are designed with oxygen depletion sensors to limit this problem, but they are not foolproof. A CO detector is a fallback, but the bottom line is that the location of this particular heater is not one that I would feel comfortable with.

I use an unvented heater in winter and am pleased with it, but it is in a large area and there is sufficient air infiltration AND I am at a much lower altitude. The water vapor given off is a plus, and reduces my sinus issues. The dry winter air in Vermont had me susceptible to every cold that went around, as well as numerous nosebleeds.

As for carbon monoxide, I'd place a wager that I have less of it in my rural home than many people have simply by living in a city in the northeast.

I don't think I am overreacting when I say that the unvented heater location you describe is a critically poor one, and that heater is inappropriate for it. I would replace it with a vented model or some other form of heating even if there weren't health issues where it was suspect.
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