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Old 07-16-2008, 12:43 PM
 
2,437 posts, read 8,150,615 times
Reputation: 1532

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There was an off-topic thread going on recently:
http://www.city-data.com/forum/color...-divide-3.html

Where a person said they were under covenants, and then they all started talking about HOA. Now, to my understanding, there is a huge difference between the two. So ,if you're interested, or especially in the know, please read what I have to say about it and let me know if my understanding is correct:

I live in Palmer Lake, in the Lakeview Heights lots which has housing covenants. This means that when the area started being developed as a housing area a few decades ago, the lnadowner (developer) filed covenants with the county that serve as fair use guidelines to be followed by all future resident. The benfit (or the drawback, depening on your POV) of covenants is that no one person, or group of people can actually enforce them. They are not laws, so the police would do nothing about them, and there is no landlord , property manager, or HOA witht he power to enforce them. The only path to enforcement is through the courts. For example, if my neighbor breaks the covenenants by building their house 20 feet too high (breaking the high restrictions, and blocking out my entire view) I may choose to file a civil suit to get them to modify their construction and/or pay a settlement to me. I would almost certyainly win because I would have the neighborhood covenants (which they would have had to sign) to back me up. If, on the other hand, I break my covenants by painting my house pale blue when the coventants say they should be 'earth tones', my neighbors could try to file a suit, but they probably would not because, a) the breakage is minor and fairly non-obtrusive, and b) it falls in sort of a grey area of what's allowed or not (who say 'pale-blue is not and earth-tone). So with covenants, you legally can do whatever you want to your house, but if you get really obnoxious about it, your neighbors might get together and sue you.

With HOA's on the other hand, there is a group of folks (usually busybody old ladies) who control and enforce the community rules. They have considerable, though not absolute, power to dole out penalties for breakage of said rules. Such penalties may range from nasty notes (most common) to fines (although they could probably be fought off in court) and, in extreme cases, order to sell notices (which would most definately involvoe a court process). Actually, I previously lived in a mobile home park (in another state) and they actually held the power to evict, even though I owned my own home, since the land was rented from the park. Not a pleasant arrangement.

So anyways, that's the difference between HOA and covenants. I much prefer covenants, because they provide some broad guidelines to keep they neighborhood fairly normal looking, but they don't try to control every landscaping and home improvement whim you may have.
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Old 07-17-2008, 08:01 AM
 
Location: 80904 West siiiiiide!
2,957 posts, read 8,341,268 times
Reputation: 1787
HOA"s are of the super suck variety.

Hell will freeze over before you tell me what to do with my personal property.

I'm not a junk collector or slob by any means, I take pride in my property, but I do have a boat, and it stays in my driveway.

Most HOA's would be furious of that.
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Old 07-17-2008, 09:34 AM
 
Location: In a Galaxy far, far away called Germany
4,300 posts, read 4,386,127 times
Reputation: 2394
I guess HOA's are perfect for those looking for a cookie-cutter community. No thanks for me. I'll take quirky and zaney anyday. I don't dig the trashy yards though.
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Old 07-17-2008, 10:00 AM
 
Location: Falcon
268 posts, read 1,126,435 times
Reputation: 100
I don't mind a boat, but if by zany and quirky you mean a purple plaid house, I'll pass. I think HOAs are a little over the top basically because of the few enforcement people are on a power trip. I think giving neighbors the tools to enforce some decency is good. There is a cost of entry into that project that will bar people from foolishly using it as happens in HOAs. I personally don't care what you do with your house as long as it doesn't detract from the neighborhood.
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Old 07-17-2008, 10:14 AM
 
Location: Canon City, Colorado
1,331 posts, read 5,062,935 times
Reputation: 689
I have a very old covenant. It says that a homeowner can only have normal pets on the property such as,...... dogs, cats and Horses!

I think HOA's are (what Ryan said!).
Power Trips are what they should be called! Now, if one has a trashy neighbor, just call the code enforcement offices, they'll ticket them until they clean up!
Purple Plaid...hahahaha
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Old 07-17-2008, 12:29 PM
 
2,437 posts, read 8,150,615 times
Reputation: 1532
Default Covenent enforecement

Quote:
Originally Posted by SheridanL View Post
just call the code enforcement offices, they'll ticket them until they clean up!
Okay, but that's one of the things I'm trying to figure out. i read my covenants closely here does not appear phone number or other contact info for my friendly neighborhood covenant enforcement office. People in offices typically need ot be paid, and covenant communities seldom have any paid employees. HOA's usally have at least one paid person to enforce the rules, and then a group of volunteers to make the rules and otherwise harrass the rest of the residents. So, my understanding, is that if you want to enforce your own neighborhood covenants, you'll have to take your neighborhood to court, or at least threaten to. That's good if you're the offender but not so good if you're the offendee.
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Old 07-17-2008, 02:46 PM
 
Location: Canon City, Colorado
1,331 posts, read 5,062,935 times
Reputation: 689
I would call the city/county. They would point you in the right direction and, send someone to the offenders home and check them out. They will give out warnings(within a time frame) then, start fining them.
For instance, everyone has to have trash service, they can't throw their bags in their yards. Unless someone reports them, they would have no way of knowing!
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Old 07-18-2008, 11:56 AM
 
2,437 posts, read 8,150,615 times
Reputation: 1532
I tried calling the city and they weren't all that helpful. They just told me to read my covenants (which I already did). In the case of something like garbage, rampant weeds or other neglectful behavior, the city and/or county can impose a fine because they are breaking public ordinances. However, in the case of something less neglectful, but still against covenant guidelines, like painting your house red, white and blue or storing a 40 foot motorhome in the side yard, the city or county will not respond unless there are municipal or county ordinances against those same things. My understanding is that, in such cases, you (or perhaps a group of folks in the neighborhood) are on your own, and your only course of action is through the courts.
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Old 07-18-2008, 11:59 PM
 
Location: Upland, California
41 posts, read 193,671 times
Reputation: 27
Default Power Corrupts....

I've lived in a condo complex with HOA CC+Rs....NEVER AGAIN....One joker was paid $10K yearly to inspect GARBAGE CANS...stupid security guards hassling a guy washing his car in front of his garage, while people's cars are getting broken into.....parking was a daily battle to find a spot reasonably close to your condo......We had a revolution,board got kicked out (one clown board member brought his mouthpiece LAWYER to the meeting). In watching the scenario unfold in front of me, I was reminded of the quote: 'Power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely'. HOA or Nation, no difference.These board members were absolutely DESPERATE to hold onto their shred of power. I was disgusted, frankly. I vowed to never live like that again. If my neighbor has a messy yard, I'll offer to help him clean it. If he wants to paint his house crazy colors, I'll grab a brush and help. But I have NO RIGHT to tell him what to do with his property. That's HIS. Don't worry, folks, I'll be living out east when I move out to the Springs area, where the next house is far enough away if I can't throw a ball and hit it! Gimme some ROOM! With nobody BUGGIN'!!!
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Old 04-28-2014, 12:15 PM
 
1 posts, read 10,947 times
Reputation: 11
First of all, I serve on the Board of Directors of an HOA. While I realize that some HOA's are hog crazy, HOA's (good ones) serve a purpose. The Covenants of an HOA are legally binding on ALL. The Covenants are intended to keep the community in good order - that means, lawns maintained (who wants to live next to overgrown yards?), no motor vehicles that are inoperable sitting in driveways, no cars being torn apart, and the noises associated with same disrupting the neighborhood. While our HOA does require you to get permission to install a fence (to make sure one isn't simply installing a chain link fence, which is not appealing to anyone unless you are a cow), to change the color of your house (no hot pink houses with yellow and green plaid shutters, thank you!), in most cases our HOA does NOT object to the fences, colors of paint, etc. Common sense should prevail by ALL parties. If one doesn't want to live within the confines of an HOA, then one should not purchase a home governed by one. While I agree that it is your home, you pay for it, I still don't want the console of a Chevy truck sitting on the porch for lawn furniture, live next to a house overgrown with weeds and neglect, and I sure don't want to listen to cars being torn apart at all hours of the day and night. We are having some of these very issues with homeowners. Again, all knew when they purchased the home here it was governed by HOA rules. We are a self-governed HOA - it is NOT fun sitting on a Board of an HOA. People are constantly complaining about neighbors - many times for things the HOA has NO control over. The items of complaint that are legitimate, we respond to - we try to do so without legal action, without fines - but if a homeowner refuses to cooperate, then that step is taken.

Before you trash all HOAs, understand that they do serve a purpose. While some may be over the top - then it is up to you to attend your meetings, discuss the issues with the Board. All homeowners are entitled to attend the meetings; homeowners are entitled to copies of the Covenants, as well as the financial information of the HOA. If you are being denied any of these things, the Covenants also provide recourse - most Covenants (as does ours) allows a Board to be voted out by a 2/3 majority of the community. If your Board is NOT looking after your interests or arbitratrily enforcing rules - then do something.
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