Home Invasions (homes, estimate, office)

[Pilot1]

Originally Posted by treedonkey

All I'm saying is that almost everyone who thinks that they are well-trained enough to shoot at a person accurately while under threat is sadly mistaken, and that they would be better off keeping the gun locked up, or not owning one at all, and getting and alarm system and some self-defense training instead.

Where is your source for the statistic you must have that supports "almost everyone"?

BTW, been down to Palmer Lake and Larkspur many times. Love the area and would like to buy land there someday.

[McGowdog]

Originally Posted by jplmr

Living on base I even had someone try to break into my home.

What?!!!!! This is unbelievable! What's the point of having that little gate outside the base? That just seems like total irony to me.

[Bideshi]

Originally Posted by McGowdog

What?!!!!! This is unbelievable! What's the point of having that little gate outside the base? That just seems like total irony to me.

A military base is a community with a certain percentage of criminals like any other community.

[McGowdog]

That seems like having a Catholic Priest run the day care. Or a mosquito who works for Bonfils, or a fox who guards the chicken coup. Or having Gloria Bunker and Oprah run the soup kitchen...

It's like having children stock the candy machines...
It's like having alcoholics drive the Coors trucks...
It's like having Sarah Silverman run the FCC...
It's like having an Iraq reporter head up the council on Foreign Relations...
It's like having LBear answer phones for the Suicide Prevention Hotline...

THE IRONY OF IT ALL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[treedonkey]

Originally Posted by Pilot1

Where is your source for the statistic you must have that supports "almost everyone"?

No statistic for that as it is just my opinion. Besides, 'almost everyone' is a totally subjective statement, so even if I did have an actual percentage to list, it would not necessarily verify that statement. But do you really disagree? Do you actually think that most people claiming to be 'highly trained' with a firearm really are?

Thanks, Palmer Lake and Larkspur totally ROCK, as long as you don't mind a little more snow and a longer commute.

[COflower]

Gun w*nk on the internet from both sides is an interesting spectator sport. Okay, not sport but you get the idea.

It's not unlike discussing religion with your friend when they are completely opposite of you and nothing will ever get resolved. It's sometimes better to just not engage.

With that said, I am for private ownership of guns, former NRA member - gave up my membership because they are too cozy with politicians in my opinion, believe self-defense is important, a registered Libertarian...never owned a gun and never shot a gun but I believe in the rights of individuals to have them to protect themselves, family and property.

Criminals rarely own legal guns so an individual should have reasonable protection if he or she sees fit. All gun owners I know have taken safety classes, regularly go to the shooting range and maintain gun safety measures in their home, especially if children are present. Speaking of children, most I know that have kids actually teach them safety and start them out young enough when they are mature enough to handle a gun with classes and such. Heck, one of my builders in Grand Junction took his 12 year old son hunting with him and his buddies. The kid is about 22 now and is still alive.

Anyhow, from my own experience gun owners don't take owning a gun lightly. They take all precautions to ensure that things don't go wrong but just like owning a car, sometimes things can go wrong. Heck, getting the shower can go wrong.

Being a non-owner but a supporter of self-defense in the way that these home invasions and other personal attacks gives me a different perspective than others.

Oh and treedonkey - it is not feasible for everyone to have an alarm system or a dog or both. I have the dog - because landlord allows it - who probably would lick instead of attack but I also rent so installing an alarm system is not going to happen. Not only that, many homeowners simply can't afford the alarm system and the monitoring...not everyone who is a homeowner makes a lot of money and in these economic times, putting food on the table is much more a priority than paying ADT to install a $2000+ system in the house.

[Bob from down south]

Originally Posted by treedonkey

I guess it's a question of what constitutes 'trained' versus 'untrained'. You'd have a hard time convincing me that anyone who goes hunting and takes target practice regularly is well-trained enough to shoot accurately under threat.

And, no, self defense does not equal kung fu or any other martial art for that matter. The fact that that person thinks it does shows that they know nothing about self-defense, which is usually about 97% deterrence, and, 2% escape tactics and 1% brawn.

"Trained" means, for the purposes of a concealed-carry permit, having passed an officially recognized firearms proficiency course. It doesn't mean "I went to shoot at tin cans last week." The firearms courses I used to teach had in-depth blocks of instruction on the law and use of deadly force, establishing the resolve to use a weapon prior to bringing it into the home or workplace, how to avoid losing the weapon to an attacker, use of a weapon and lighting against an attacker at night, effective use of a weapon through walls and windows, barricading and shielding techniques, room clearing, use of corner mirrors, rapid friend/foe identification etc etc.

Most "self-defense" classes I've seen offered to the general public are just re-branded martial arts courses. I've actually been through several of the best self-defense courses in the world as a part of my years working overseas, and they do teach avoidance and deterrence. But they also teach proficiency with weapons, because deterrence and avoidance don't always work. And in one's home, the application of deterrence and avoidance is very limited. Once somebody's broken into the house with you and/or family inside, the time for deterrence is past.

Anyway, properly trained people have a good track record at defending themselves with weapons when the need arises. If you want to depend on someone else to defend you, fine. Everyone should get to decide for himself how much risk to take in the world.

[Pilot1]

^^^^^^^^^


What Bob said.

[jplmr]

Just because soliders and their families live behind a gate doesnt mean that crime doesnt happen. It does everyday. That is why we have military police and CID. We have young punks that feel that have the right to do what they want when they want where they want.

[treedonkey]

Originally Posted by Pilot1

^^^^^^^^^


What Bob said.

Okay, good points, Bob, but strangely Pilot1 is no longer interested in statistics when you say things like, "properly trained people have a good track record at defending themselves with weapons when the need arises."

I still think that most people who think they are highly skilled and/or well-trained are really not, so please don't wave your guns in my direction and I promise to stay out of your house uninvited. Also, I'm also pretty sure that none of you who claim to be able gun down a bad guy have never faced any real opportunity to do so, and that if you did it likely would not go so well, regardless of training. But that's just my unverified opinion and it's not likely that many of you will agree with it.