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Old 02-02-2010, 12:19 PM
 
Location: ITP
2,133 posts, read 4,070,611 times
Reputation: 1284

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This whole thing has actually made national news and I came to this thread to hear what locals have to say. I'm in complete agreement with folks who say that the only way the public will agree to raise taxes is if they feel assured that the revenue will be spent wisely by elected officials. Apparently a lot of folks in the Springs have a pretty pessimistic view of their city government.

For those vehemently arguing that government should make cuts just like families, I believe they're missing a huge part of the picture. Families, as well as businesses, constantly assume debt in this economy in order to obtain the essentials they need to survive through this downturn. Spending frivolously is definitely foolish; however spending on essentials--such as streetlights, police, fire, and even parks--is extremely necessary in order to maintain the quality of life in your community. Also making investments in infrastructure and services that add value to your community in the long run is very essential to positioning your community economic growth in the future--which makes it possible to meet future debt obligations. Merely letting your infrastructure deteriorate and your population become horrendously underserved does nothing but invite higher costs in the future in order to catch up--not even to mention leave your community in an extremely vulnerable position in the long run to attract and foster economic growth as businesses relocate or choose other cities that offer better services and quality of life. In the end, these draconian cuts have the potential of leaving Colorado Springs's local economy in poor shape over the long run.
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Old 02-02-2010, 01:32 PM
 
Location: Falcon
268 posts, read 807,710 times
Reputation: 90
Quote:
Originally Posted by south-to-west View Post
For those vehemently arguing that government should make cuts just like families, I believe they're missing a huge part of the picture. Families, as well as businesses, constantly assume debt in this economy in order to obtain the essentials they need to survive through this downturn.
I haven't gone into debt to pay my electric bill.

In fact, this downturn has motivated me to a different way of spending. I never had huge amounts of unsecured debt and none that I couldn't pay off quickly with a little dip into savings. However, seeing alot of the problems others have with debt have led me to save prior to buying where I can. I even extend this to my vehicles. After my current auto loans are paid, I won't take any more. What was car payments become deposits into savings accounts for my next vehicles. The only debt I will have is a mortgage only because I can't wait 20-25 years to save up for a house.
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Old 02-02-2010, 02:17 PM
 
1,734 posts, read 1,657,595 times
Reputation: 1872
Speaking of autos, CO new car registration is down 28% from last year. Another sign of the times. RP
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Old 02-02-2010, 03:40 PM
 
373 posts, read 1,065,708 times
Reputation: 438
Ignoring the potholes for a year or so should be a huge benefit for the tire stores and alignment shops. Maybe it's a conspiracy.
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Old 02-02-2010, 05:58 PM
 
Location: colorado springs summer/east valley Az winter
1,936 posts, read 2,193,357 times
Reputation: 7118
you can mark my taxes down for continued bus service and the income from having USOC in town~ the police should be capable of paying their own way by ticketing the idiotic speeders going through town. I'll be riding the bus. Fire and EMT can pay for themselves in private enterprise like rural metro in Az.

Now waiting for bob from down south to totally disagree
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Old 02-02-2010, 07:43 PM
 
373 posts, read 1,065,708 times
Reputation: 438
I can just hear the politicians: "After suffering through dead grass in the parks, trash strewn everywhere, street lights turned off in most places, and tire eating potholes, maybe those ungrateful citizens will approve a tax increase!"

Nope. Not until hell freezes over.
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Old 02-02-2010, 08:22 PM
 
Location: Falcon
268 posts, read 807,710 times
Reputation: 90
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vision67 View Post
Ignoring the potholes for a year or so should be a huge benefit for the tire stores and alignment shops. Maybe it's a conspiracy.
You know, I wondered that after they repaved US-24. It's a very rough asphalt. I just thought it was sponsored by BigO or Midas.
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Old 02-03-2010, 11:54 AM
 
5,748 posts, read 7,357,475 times
Reputation: 4378
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob from down south View Post
Geez, the Post quotes some snotty-nose criminal justice student that thinks helicopters patrolling bus stops is economically feasible and necessary.
Did you read a different article than me? Here's the quote from the criminal justice student...

Quote:
Hansen, the criminal-justice student, grows especially exasperated when recalling a scary incident a few years ago as she waited for a bus. She said a carload of drunken men approached her until the police helicopter that had been trailing them turned a spotlight on the men and chased them off. Now the helicopter is gone, and the streetlight she was waiting under is threatened as well.
I didn't get the impression that she was advocating helicopter patrols. What in her comment would make you think so?

Furthermore, why do you feel the need to demean people with terms like "snotty-nose?" There are ways to disagree without resorting to name-calling. It doesn't make your point anymore valid.

Last edited by formercalifornian; 02-03-2010 at 12:09 PM..
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Old 02-03-2010, 11:19 PM
 
Location: Colorado Springs, CO
2,220 posts, read 3,438,250 times
Reputation: 1625
Quote:
Originally Posted by formercalifornian View Post
I didn't get the impression that she was advocating helicopter patrols. What in her comment would make you think so?

Furthermore, why do you feel the need to demean people with terms like "snotty-nose?" There are ways to disagree without resorting to name-calling. It doesn't make your point anymore valid.
It is entirely appropriate to impugn her credibility, based on her youth and lack of mature comprehension that helicopters lighting up carloads of drunks cruising the streets at night is not a normal law-enforcement capability. A student in criminal justice should know that, but she saw fit to bring it up, and she's "exasperated" that the helicopter can't be there to keep her safe from marauding carloads of drunks? Whether we call her her snotty-nosed, wet-behind-the-ears, or clueless, it doesn't matter to me, but she's not credible just because she took a couple classes in criminal justice and occasions the streets from time to time like most of the rest of us.

This nation survived 175 years without a single helicopter police patrol...it's an extravagance, not a necessity. Patrol cars and radios, properly employed, can get the job done without a multimillion dollar rotary-wing police patrol that costs thousands of dollars every hour it's in the air.
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Old 02-04-2010, 02:34 AM
 
Location: Denver, CO
1,581 posts, read 2,421,300 times
Reputation: 1638
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dorthy View Post
I think that it's crystal clear that by making these types of cuts, the leaders of Colorado Springs don't have the city's best interest in mind. If they did they would be looking at trimming the fat first in terms of salaries, benefits, etc.

Quote:
Fowler and many other residents say voters don't trust city government to wisely spend a general tax increase and don't believe the current cuts are the only way to balance a budget.

Community business leaders have jumped into the budget debate, some questioning city spending on what they see as "Ferrari"-level benefits for employees and high salaries in middle management. Broadmoor luxury resort chief executive Steve Bartolin wrote an open letter asking why the city spends $89,000 per employee, when his enterprise has a similar number of workers and spends only $24,000 on each.

Rivera said, acknowledging there is a "level of distrust" of public officials at many levels.
While some of the services they are talking about cutting back on seem trivial, some will have a negative ripple effect on crime, tourism, sales tax revenue, property values, etc. If city leaders truly care about their city, they will look at cutting back on jobs, salaries, benefits, etc for the public servants who were hired to manage and run the city. They will use our tax dollars in a responsible, efficient and frugal manner without waste within the current confines of the budget. After that is done, then they can decide what services to cut.
I wouldn't mind a slightly more detailed comparison on the rhetoric about Broadmoor jobs at $24k that are comparable to city jobs at $89k. Not saying there isn't room for pay cuts there, but I'd be interested to know where Steve Bartolin thinks those $89k jobs are.

In addition, the Mayor says,

Quote:
Mayor and council are part-time jobs in Colorado Springs, points out Mayor Rivera, that pay $6,250 a year ($250 extra for the mayor). "We have jobs, we pay taxes, we use services, just like they do," Rivera said, acknowledging there is a "level of distrust" of public officials at many levels.
But it still sounds like the article is disjointed and fails to give us any real valuable information about what's cut, what could be cut, and what really demands an increase in revenue.
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