Robbed at gun point in the Garden (time, run)

[Bob from down south]

Originally Posted by phetaroi

No, Bob. It was early in the afternoon at an ATM in the burbs, and while there were no other people around at that moment, it also wasn't an isolated place. He forced me back to my car -- appearing to have a gun in his coat pocket -- and forced me to drive down into D.C. to a very isolated ATM. Again, early to mid-afternoon. Had it been a weekday, that particular area of D.C. would have been alive with government workers and not an issue.

Not sure where you got the idea it was at night, let alone late at night.

OK, sorry, that was the mental image it drew. Deserted in DC to me suggests late night.

Now where was this guy before he attacked you? How did he approach? What precautions did you take before getting out of your car?

Not to lecture you, but for the wider audience...some ATMs are located in such a way as to be a pre-canned robbery just waiting to happen. The best ATM locations are situated in well-travelled areas...restaurants, malls, grocery stores, gas stations etc. Some of the worst are located on the back and sides of bank buildings sitting out by themselves like an island (surrounded by land sharks). If, for some reason, you just have to use one located in a deserted remote location, stop and observe it from a distance first. If there's somebody there, using the machine or not, wait for them to leave the area. Get a good look at the area around the ATM on all sides...if there's anyone hanging out within about 100 yards, go elsewhere.

And last, getting into a car with an armed attacker and driving is a very high-risk choice. It's almost always better to break and run than to get into a vehicle and let an attacker drive you to a remote place. This is especially true for women--conventional wisdom is that if you intend to engage in fight or flight to save your life, you do it right there before letting an attacker get you into a car. If you are armed, you have an excellent opportunity to draw your weapon and get off some very effective point-blank shots while the attacker is moving around and into the vehicle.

[treedonkey]

Originally Posted by phetaroi

I think the risk of people carrying a gun is that it can lead to use, even when not necessary or wise.

That's pretty much my feeling on the matter as well. It's really naive to think that gun=protection.

I respect Bob's decision to carry one and if he really is as skilled with it as he says he is I could see that it might be useful in some situations. But the decision to NOT carry or own a gun should be respected as well. We should not go around encouraging everyone to carry a firearm as the best means of protection. A gunpoint holdup, or any other life-threatening confrontation must be such a stressful moment and so many things could happen...

ONE POSSIBLE outcome: Good guy pulls out firearm, adeptly drops both bad guys dead or disabled in their tracks before any harm can be done to the innocent; police show up, immediately see the truth of the matter, release good guy on his way, allowing the press and the public to herald him as hero and guardian of all things American. Good for good guy.

BUT of course, there are many, many other not-so-nice-and-tidy outcomes, aren't there? Some of those outcomes could be worse if the victim were armed than if he were not.

[Terytee]

Ugh....this story just makes me sad. It really makes me wonder what our fair city is turning into. My kindly lil' tailor/dry-cleaner was robbed and shot and killed in her shop a couple of months ago and it was really shocking to me. It made me decide to pursue a concealed carry permit for myself, but I dunno if it would've helped in a case like this one.

Last year, I helped a security guard at Target wrestle a would-be shoplifter and his girlfriend to the ground. The guy was carrying what looked exactly like an automatic handgun. It turned out to be fake, but he was charged with brandishing a deadly weapon. And this was at Target for God's sake!

I wonder if it's part of a trend affecting the entire country or if it's just our town. Violent crime seems to be on the up swing, no? Home invasions, armed robberies, and random shootings seem to be happening more and more.

Standing face to face with another armed person and trying to do a quck-draw thing would probably end badly for both parties.

I do now keep a small cannister of pepper-spray on me when I'm out and about and I have one in each vehicle. They're inexpensive and easy to carry and may be an option for some. It seems like these days, you have to be prepared no matter where you are.

[jazzlover]

I think people need to quit glosssing over the fact that nearly all Colorado metro areas have crime rates per capita that are worse than the national average for crime. While it is true that there are far more dangerous cities in this country than those in Colorado, that is no reason for complacency.

Colorado Springs' gang issues are nothing new. I first saw gang grafffiti in the Springs at least a decade ago. As others have noted, a tolerance for a little gang activity is just asking for a lot of gang activity.

Unfortunately, Coloradans zeal for tax and revenue limitation combined with high population growth necessarily sets the stage for inadequate law enforcement presence to prevent crime and protect the public from criminals. That is the next bitter harvest to be foisted upon us by the growth lovers who don't think growth needs to pay for itself. And, I don't want to single out Colorado Springs on this issue. It's a statewide cancer, and it not only is affecting the major cities. Many smaller communities are dealing with similar issues.

[phetaroi]

Originally Posted by Terytee

I wonder if it's part of a trend affecting the entire country or if it's just our town. Violent crime seems to be on the up swing, no? Home invasions, armed robberies, and random shootings seem to be happening more and more.

Standing face to face with another armed person and trying to do a quck-draw thing would probably end badly for both parties.

I do now keep a small cannister of pepper-spray on me when I'm out and about and I have one in each vehicle. They're inexpensive and easy to carry and may be an option for some. It seems like these days, you have to be prepared no matter where you are.

You bring up some interesting points.

I think some of what we feel is the instant-media peppering us with all sorts of stories that a decade ago we wouldn't even have been aware of. For example on CNN.com today there's a story about a shooting at a Target store in North Carolina and the story of a rape and murder in Nevada. Hardly what I would call world news. Don't get me wrong, I'm not blaming the media. They're just reporting the news, but we're now on a constant 24/7 news cycle and it brings in news from everywhere. I've opened some stories that sounded bizarre only to learn they were from some remote African nation.

I don't want a gun. I actually would feel more at risk. I figure with a gun, I still have 50/50 chance of being on dead end...where without a gun I can he held up -- admittedly very scary -- but probably not physically harmed.

Now...pepper spray...hmmm. Is that legal in Colorado? I don't do remote hikes, but I do like going out in the more public places on shorter hikes. That would make me feel safer.

[treedonkey]

Originally Posted by jazzlover

I think people need to quit glosssing over the fact that nearly all Colorado metro areas have crime rates per capita that are worse than the national average for crime. While it is true that there are far more dangerous cities in this country than those in Colorado, that is no reason for complacency.

I don't get it, what are you proposing we should do to be less complacent?
a) Move to less populated areas of CO.
b) Move away to other states and take our problems with us.
c) Vote differently.
d) Complain more.
e) Other.

[CosmicWizard]

Poatal wrote:

Maybe the cops could break away for a few minutes from their speeding ticket writing to actually fight some real crime?

It's just too dangerous!

[formercalifornian]

I'd be interested in knowing how many traffic stops result in arrests for outstanding warrants. Seems like a good opportunity to identify and arrest suspected criminals.

[CosmicWizard]

Josseppie wrote:

I would do that but I would most likely shoot myself while trying to get the gun if I was being robbed. I could see the headline in the Gazette now "Pueblo man shoots himself in foot when being robbed while trying to save himself"

And now for the rest of the story:

"Pueblo man shoots himself in foot when being robbed while trying to save himself"....the wannabe robber wet his pants from laughing so hard at this gun toting fool, and fled the scene in a state of embarrassmet. Supporters of the right to bear arms vow to hold a fundraiser to cover the victims medical bills of more than $10,000. The unidentified victim is thankful that he was able to prevent being robbed of the $33 in his wallet, and thanks his lucky stars for the second amendment. He told reporters, 'Without my gun...I would have been robbed!'

[80skeys]

Strange, this weekend here in Junction there was a similar daylight robbery. A female/male couple walked up to some teenagers in a park, pulled out a gun and asked for their wallets. The teenagers got their license plate and the police nabbed the couple about 20 minutes later.