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Old 06-21-2010, 01:11 PM
 
299 posts, read 500,385 times
Reputation: 253
Quote:
Originally Posted by livecontent View Post
This is just more bull. The function of a university is teaching academics. It is not a circus to satisfy the drooling "intelligence" of the community or of the student body.

The funds generated are exaggerated from this activity and the donations are just a cover up. They do not cover the full expenses of these programs and the immense salaries and budgets over years.

So, you got donations for a stadium?? Big deal--why do you not cover the whole cost of the program, the budgets, the maintenance of the stadium, the tuition for the players, the tutoring to teach them to learn, the summer camps, the recruiting trips, and the huge salaries for the coaches...but no, we are not going to do that...we donated for the stadium.
DA...keeping drooling that Bull.

This activity is not needed for a sense of community. The universities should not bring in students whose main function is to be "paid gladiators" and many times do not satisfy entrance requirements. College athletics do not bring in the students you need to develop an excellent college environment. It makes no difference to the perspective students who values education over the Bull.

The idea of college athletics is to develop the whole person from the whole student body--not a select few.

Football, Basketball etc. is not going to turn Colorado State University at Pueblo into a first rate school--no matter how much you blow the Bull. It is all about academics, that is what you teach and what you learn.

Livecontent
I'm with you on this. At smaller schools (like CSU-P) athletic programs are a drain on the school's resources. When you look at Division I schools, however, having a big-time football and/or basketball program can generate a lot of money for the school through advertising and TV revenue.

CSU-Pueblo athletics are not (and never will be) up to snuff with CU and CSU-FoCo. They try to say that athletics create a sense of campus community, but very few CSU-Pueblo students attend the events! Yes, the ThunderBowl was packed for the inaugural game in 2008 and for the opening game of the 2009 season, but from what I understand, the stadium was only half full for the rest of the games.

We can try to figure out why students don't go to these events, but for me, the answer is simple: The quality just isn't that great. Why would I go to a football game between CSU-Pueblo and Fort Lewis when I can stay at home and watch Texas play Oklahoma or watch Penn State play Ohio State? It would be like going to a semi-pro game on a Sunday night when you can watch the Colts play the Patriots.

Academically, some of the athletes that they recruit have no business being in a college classroom. They will skip half of the classes and never engage in class discussions. The university has to pay for tutors to get these young men and women up to speed most of the time, which again, is a drain on resources.

Yes, some wealthy members of the community got together and made a nice donation to CSU-P so that they could bring back the football program. But, you have to keep in mind that none of these people have the money that Phil Knight has.

There was a reason why they cut the program 20-some years ago, and that reason was the fact that it was becoming s drain on university resources. I predict that within 10 or 15 years, the football program will once again be on the chopping block.
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Old 06-21-2010, 01:26 PM
Status: "Pueblo Canon City CSA 208,000. The 134th largest in the USA!" (set 1 day ago)
 
Location: Pueblo - Colorado's Second City
10,200 posts, read 11,281,331 times
Reputation: 3045
Quote:
Originally Posted by livecontent View Post
We do have a difference in opinions. Your opinion seems to be the loud minority. My opinion is the silent majority. However, in this case, the minority will rule, as it does in many colleges and life. For our society seems to accept the domination of paid spectator sporting events. A college is just a microcosm of the real world and the real world worships these sports.

Quality of a College Institution is not measured by the size of the enrollment. Quality is still a measure of academics and that must be the first and foremost goal. Pueblo will put their money into sports first, and it may get to be a big loud cheering school; but it will never be an excellent school of silent scholars, who do make the big difference in society.

Livecontent
I actually think its the other way around, you are part of the loud minority and I am part of the silent majority. I say this because when students decide what college they want to attend most look at more then just academics. For example when I went to college to get my undergraduate degree I could of gone to USC but I, also, got into CSU Fort Collins and everything being equal they provided a better campus life so I went there. Had it been say 2020 or 2030 and CSU Pueblo was close to 20,000 students with a better campus life more then likely I would of stayed in Pueblo and got my undergraduate degree.

Also, IMO, just like a city needs to focus on more then its downtown to be successful I think CSU Pueblo needs to focus on more then their athletic department to be successful. So I would not want CSU Pueblo to only focus on the athletic department and forget its academics and they are not doing that as they are always adding programs including masters programs and making their current ones better. In fact CSU Pueblo got its first Boettcher scholar and that is a coop for the university and shows they are improving all areas of the school.

This is from the Pueblo Chieftain:

Plainview High School graduate Vincent Koeller needed just one visit to Colorado State University-Pueblo's campus to make his decision on which college to attend.

The link: http://www.chieftain.com/news/local/article_4b28ff06-7cf1-11df-9ffe-001cc4c002e0.html

Notice he looked at more then just the academic programs and that is how most students are.

Finally I know its not quantity over quality as CSU Pueblo needs to make sure they continue to improve as they grow but the fact is a growing university in Pueblo will have more of a positive affect on the community then it did when it was a small university struggling to keep its enrollment.
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Old 06-21-2010, 02:00 PM
 
299 posts, read 500,385 times
Reputation: 253
A football program is VERY expensive to fund. Not only do you have to pay a lot of money to coaches, trainers, and other personnel, but you have to fund all of the equipment as well. The school is also responsible for paying any health-related expenses that are caused by injuries on the field. Every sport has injuries, but football is a more violent game and players are very susceptible to some very serious injuries that could change the rest of their lives. This doesn't include all of the money that schools lose by furnishing athletes with free tuition, books, and room and board for 4+ years.

Also keep in mind that all of the money that is being used to support the football program right now has come from donations. Nothing is free, and the university will eventually have to find another way to fund the program. In the end, there will be 2 options: raise student fees to support the program, or eliminate the program altogether. If history tells us anything, the second option is the one that will probably prevail.
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Old 06-21-2010, 02:39 PM
Status: "Pueblo Canon City CSA 208,000. The 134th largest in the USA!" (set 1 day ago)
 
Location: Pueblo - Colorado's Second City
10,200 posts, read 11,281,331 times
Reputation: 3045
Quote:
Originally Posted by goyanks57 View Post
A football program is VERY expensive to fund. Not only do you have to pay a lot of money to coaches, trainers, and other personnel, but you have to fund all of the equipment as well. The school is also responsible for paying any health-related expenses that are caused by injuries on the field. Every sport has injuries, but football is a more violent game and players are very susceptible to some very serious injuries that could change the rest of their lives. This doesn't include all of the money that schools lose by furnishing athletes with free tuition, books, and room and board for 4+ years.

Also keep in mind that all of the money that is being used to support the football program right now has come from donations. Nothing is free, and the university will eventually have to find another way to fund the program. In the end, there will be 2 options: raise student fees to support the program, or eliminate the program altogether. If history tells us anything, the second option is the one that will probably prevail.
This is one time you can't use history as the situation was completely different as it was USC with decreasing enrollment while now its CSU Pueblo with increasing enrollment. In fact it should be at 10,000 students in just a few years and that alone should be enough to support a football program, just look at UNC.
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Old 06-21-2010, 04:40 PM
 
4,749 posts, read 8,457,817 times
Reputation: 5933
You are dancing around the issue that college football is corrupt system, giving free tuition to many idiots so you can have your game to watch. College students love to criticize government and the older generation but they will not look at themselves and their own surrounding of corruption, deception and stupidity. They keep funding these sports programs, support incompetent teachers and wasteful degrees. These students accept the rising of tuition rates that exceed any other cost rise in society because the college are run by self serving administrators and staff that have no concept of budgeting--they just go to the tax payers and students to get more money.

I know all about this crap. I spend wasteful years in dumb college courses at many colleges, taught by people who could not do anything else. Yea, I got my degrees--mostly useless courses to get credit. I worked at Universities and saw how inefficient these experts are in running the institutions. I saw stupid jocks slumping in class, if they bothered to show up. Over the years, I saw the dilution of requirements and the inflation of grades and of course, the increase of tuition that delivered less. Rah, Rah, Rah, Go (pick one, they are all the same) Now, I am old enough to know when somewhat is throwing bull.

What makes it worse is that I see these "graduates" in the work place who have no training, no knowledge but they have their degrees. Rah, Rah, Rah

Livecontent
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Old 06-21-2010, 04:57 PM
Status: "Pueblo Canon City CSA 208,000. The 134th largest in the USA!" (set 1 day ago)
 
Location: Pueblo - Colorado's Second City
10,200 posts, read 11,281,331 times
Reputation: 3045
Quote:
Originally Posted by livecontent View Post
You are dancing around the issue that college football is corrupt system, giving free tuition to many idiots so you can have your game to watch. College students love to criticize government and the older generation but they will not look at themselves and their own surrounding of corruption, deception and stupidity. They keep funding these sports programs, support incompetent teachers and wasteful degrees. These students accept the rising of tuition rates that exceed any other cost rise in society because the college are run by self serving administrators and staff that have no concept of budgeting--they just go to the tax payers and students to get more money.

I know all about this crap. I spend wasteful years in dumb college courses at many colleges, taught by people who could not do anything else. Yea, I got my degrees--mostly useless courses to get credit. I worked at Universities and saw how inefficient these experts are in running the institutions. I saw stupid jocks slumping in class, if they bothered to show up. Over the years, I saw the dilution of requirements and the inflation of grades and of course, the increase of tuition that delivered less. Rah, Rah, Rah, Go (pick one, they are all the same) Now, I am old enough to know when somewhat is throwing bull.

Livecontent
Sounds like you have a issue with universities and I am not going to change your mind on that so I won't even try. I understand that they are not perfect as I have 2 undergraduate degrees and a masters degree so I have had some bad teachers as well as some great ones and have had my fair share of problems over the years but I continue to think that universities are one of the best inventions society has and am proud that Pueblo has one.

That was way general and off topic so to get back on topic, IMO, with the change of name from USC to CSU Pueblo along with adding sports including football and adding degrees are the major reasons CSU Pueblo is experiencing the kind of growth they are. The proof is in the numbers as that is when CSU Pueblo went from losing population to being the fastest growing school in the state. Now that they have done that I agree they can not sit and rest but need to keep improving the university and that was the point of the editorial I posted titled "Excitement & Growth' giving way to period of 'Achievement" meaning that now that we have gone past the excitement and growth phase they need to work on improving all parts of the university including the academic part. This will not happen over night but over the next 10 to 20 years you should continue to see significant growth and improvement at CSU Pueblo and that will only help the city of Pueblo.
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Old 06-21-2010, 07:02 PM
 
4,749 posts, read 8,457,817 times
Reputation: 5933
Josseppie,

Yep, I think most college programs are a waste of the national resources, both human and financial. Well, I strongly disagree about football but I like you gumption.

Livecontent
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Old 06-21-2010, 07:29 PM
 
299 posts, read 500,385 times
Reputation: 253
Higher education is a racket. Not just at CSU-P, but at every other college and university in America. We're all led down this path and told that having a degree automatically means that we will make a million dollars more in our lifetime than someone else who doesn't have a degree. While this may be true for some people, I'm having a hard time coping with the fact that I'll be $50,000 in debt 18 months from now.

EVERY ONE of my elders told me the same thing: "Get your education, because you don't want to be like me in 30 years." I bought in to what they said and took out all of the loans, but now, I'm not sure if I've made the right choices. for young people, $50K is a lot of money. How can I expect to buy a house by the time I'm 30 years old?
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Old 06-21-2010, 08:06 PM
 
4,749 posts, read 8,457,817 times
Reputation: 5933
Quote:
Originally Posted by goyanks57 View Post
Higher education is a racket. Not just at CSU-P, but at every other college and university in America. We're all led down this path and told that having a degree automatically means that we will make a million dollars more in our lifetime than someone else who doesn't have a degree. While this may be true for some people, I'm having a hard time coping with the fact that I'll be $50,000 in debt 18 months from now.

EVERY ONE of my elders told me the same thing: "Get your education, because you don't want to be like me in 30 years." I bought in to what they said and took out all of the loans, but now, I'm not sure if I've made the right choices. for young people, $50K is a lot of money. How can I expect to buy a house by the time I'm 30 years old?
I feel for you. The bigger is school loans to banks. It is one the biggest debts that Americans assume. It is a collusion between the government, the schools and the banks. The schools says you need it; the government says it is OK and backs many loans; and the banks just rake in the money. People are fooled into buying some worthless educational product and going into debt.

I never went into debt, well, not big time. I took out a small loan for $550 (it was something for the 60s) from New York State and paid it back at about $6 a month--but paid it off early. Took a larger bridge loan of $1000 until VA monies were approved and paid it right off, when I got my funds. That was it. I had a full academic scholarship and the GI bill. Also worked part time, full time and was very frugal--as I am today. I even bought a new car in college and paid cash (it cost $3050). When, I finished school, I had no debt and I had savings. Now, I am poor because of a disability but still no debt.

It may make more sense for many people to avoid college and learn a trade...or you can play football, learn nothing, but be a rich hero and live off the stupidity of others who will pay you to perform.

Livecontent
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Old 06-21-2010, 08:35 PM
Status: "Pueblo Canon City CSA 208,000. The 134th largest in the USA!" (set 1 day ago)
 
Location: Pueblo - Colorado's Second City
10,200 posts, read 11,281,331 times
Reputation: 3045
Quote:
Originally Posted by livecontent View Post
Josseppie,

Yep, I think most college programs are a waste of the national resources, both human and financial. Well, I strongly disagree about football but I like you gumption.

Livecontent
Thanks. I like your gumption as well and its nice that we can have a nice polite discussion even when we disagree.

One question though. In a way CSU Pueblo is a case study in how football does help a university grow and get more academic programs. It has been CSU Pueblo since 2003 and while it did grow and get more attention it was not until football, and other sports, were brought back the enrollment really took off and the school begin adding programs to keep up. Any thoughts on that?
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