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Old 06-21-2010, 11:06 PM
 
4,848 posts, read 8,653,627 times
Reputation: 6129

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Josseppie View Post
Thanks. I like your gumption as well and its nice that we can have a nice polite discussion even when we disagree.

One question though. In a way CSU Pueblo is a case study in how football does help a university grow and get more academic programs. It has been CSU Pueblo since 2003 and while it did grow and get more attention it was not until football, and other sports, were brought back the enrollment really took off and the school begin adding programs to keep up. Any thoughts on that?
Sports belong in college campuses to educate and form the whole person. We should try to engage as many people in healthy sports that they are capable of doing.

I do not believe we should have semi-professional feeder teams on college campus. We should not allow the ability to play a sport to be a benefit for entrance to a college. We should not fund these programs with excessive salaries. We should not turn a blind eye to the continual problem of corruption and the easy pass that these athletes are given.

There is no denying these problems--it is a continuing problem. It is a big business with big money. So is prostitution--perhaps we should allow that on college campuses--after all there are are plenty of lush young boys and girls that can easily sells themselves and help fund the university. And that is what the whole program is about prostitute, pimps and drooling fans.

There has to be some morality and integrity. I do not believe that the end justifies the means. It is wrong to engage in bad and criminal actions, no matter what the publicity it gives the schools and no matter the money, it alleges to bring in from supporters.

Semi-professional college sports is a bad example of behavior and should not be something that should be honored and encouraged in higher learning. For, morality is a value that should also be taught. You cannot call yourself a liberal just person if you turn a blind eye to the corruption and inequalities to other students that do not get a place for admission and whose classes are brought down by the stupidity of some of these player.

You are saying there will be benefits--therefore all is fine and I will look the other way. That is wrong and you have to stand firm and advocate right behavior, whatever the cost.

Colleges are not a playground for sports. You are just allowing values to be diluted for growth and publicity. Sell your soul and be damned. If Pueblo remains a small university because of a lack of football--then so be it.

Livecontent
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Old 06-22-2010, 12:02 AM
 
Location: Pueblo - Colorado's Second City
10,269 posts, read 11,654,972 times
Reputation: 3097
^

You have a negative view of sports and that's ok but I see it as mutually beneficial as it helps the school while at the same time helping the student grow as well as get through college. Sure you have some students who do not use it to its full potential but you have that with any scholarship. I know this is personal preference but I like college campuses that have a nice football stadium and basketball arena versus schools that do not even if I choose not to attend many games as having them just seems to increase the activity level and I always enjoyed that. Just look at CU Boulder's campus versus CSU Fort Collins campus. I don't think I am alone because schools with major sports programs seem to be more successful and well known then schools that do not have one. Just look at the change it brought to CSU Pueblo.
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Old 06-22-2010, 04:58 PM
 
299 posts, read 510,561 times
Reputation: 254
College Navigator - Colorado State University-Pueblo

I ran into a pretty interesting site while I was filling out my FAFSA. When I compare some of the other schools in Colorado to CSU-Pueblo, a lot of red flags go up for me.

The first is the percentage of students who apply to the university and are accepted is 97%. Most of the state's other schools are in the 60s, 70s and 80s. IMO, this means that CSU-P's admission standards are close to non-existent and they are more worried about growing the school so that they can boast about being the state's fastest growing university than they are about educating the students.

CSU-P's retention rate is right in line with schools like Adams State, Metro State and Fort Lewis, but it is a far cry from the retention rates at CU-Boulder and CSU. There is a reason for this.

Most of the data was compiled in 2008 and 2009, so it is fairly recent.
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Old 06-22-2010, 05:18 PM
 
Location: Pueblo - Colorado's Second City
10,269 posts, read 11,654,972 times
Reputation: 3097
^

Not a surprise CSU Pueblo does have lower admission standards then CSU Fort Collins and CU Boulder.
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Old 06-22-2010, 06:20 PM
 
299 posts, read 510,561 times
Reputation: 254
Quote:
Originally Posted by Josseppie View Post
^

Not a surprise CSU Pueblo does have lower admission standards then CSU Fort Collins and CU Boulder.
And obviously, every other small school in the state.
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Old 06-22-2010, 07:09 PM
 
Location: Des Moines, IA
73 posts, read 104,764 times
Reputation: 48
Wow, now parents and children have to take absolutely no responsibility for college planning!

In my opinion, people should not be having children unless they are able to afford things for their children such as college. Not all low income families are irresponsible, but this could potentially reward the least responsible members of society for having children.
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Old 06-22-2010, 08:19 PM
 
Location: Colorado Springs
1,561 posts, read 1,425,871 times
Reputation: 1447
I've been reading this thread and want to make a couple of observations:

1. The only question worth asking is not what percent of people who apply are accepted. That alone does not answer the merit question. A better question is what percent of people who are accepted actually go on to achieve their degrees, and how does that compare to other universities.

2. The question of free tuition is not a simple one. As a retired educator at the middle school level -- in an affluent area in the east -- I know many former students who got huge sums of tuition assistance and grants because their parents were affluent enough (to afford college independently) and well educated enough to know how to apply for tuition assistance and grants...or even hire people to do it for them. Is that merit? Furthermore, the OP seems to be saying that free tuition is inappropriate (and perhaps it is) because of some sort of merit in paying for college independently. If "merit" is a valid argument, than it ought to be merit in regard to educational accomplishment, not family wealth. Rich and many middle income kids can afford all sorts of private tutoring and summer camps for academic enrichment to boost their SAT scores (and the like). Poor kids can't afford such programs.

3. If all this is happening because Colorado is getting more liberal, or if something is happening because Colorado is getting more conservative (and I've heard both), then it's because the people of Colorado are getting more liberal...or more conservative...and are electing candidates to public office that see things differently. That's called democracy. It's unfortunate that dyed-in-the-wool conservatives (or dyed-in-the-wool liberals) only believe in democracy when it's their side/position that is winning.
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Old 06-22-2010, 08:51 PM
 
1,428 posts, read 1,378,733 times
Reputation: 788
Quote:
Originally Posted by goyanks57 View Post
You can try as hard as you want to put window dressing on this, but this is a disgrace. It shows how liberal this state is becoming.

I was raised with what I think are good, conservative principles. If you wan't something, go get it. Don't expect someone else to give it to you. When the dust settles, I'll know that I have EARNED my degree, and had nothing given to me.


um ultra conservative states such as GA and SC already do things like this as well. grant it their programs are merit based.

plus and not to be that guy, but um a degree from CSU - Pueblo is probably only valid in Colorado anyways, and in some cases probably only valid in Pueblo, CO. sorry but i had no idea this was even a school until just minute.
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Old 06-22-2010, 09:53 PM
 
Location: Pueblo - Colorado's Second City
10,269 posts, read 11,654,972 times
Reputation: 3097
Quote:
Originally Posted by greenvillebuckeye View Post
plus and not to be that guy, but um a degree from CSU - Pueblo is probably only valid in Colorado anyways, and in some cases probably only valid in Pueblo, CO. sorry but i had no idea this was even a school until just minute.
Back when it was the University of Southern Colorado I would of agreed with this statement 100% and that is why the school had dropping enrollment. That being said it was still a good degree to have if you wanted to pursue a advanced degree as it did have respect in the academic world just not the real world. For example I got into the University of San Diego in their MBA program that is one of the best in the country and one of the reasons was my degree at USC and I am not talking So Cal lol.

That being said all that changed when it became part of the Colorado State system and especially when it changed it's name to Colorado State University Pueblo. Sure you might not have heard of this school but companies have heard of the Colorado State system and that does have influence not only in Pueblo and Colorado but all over the country. That is one key reason it is growing again and not only attracting people from Pueblo or even Colorado but all over and its only been 7 years. Wait another 10 and see how the university continues to grow and become more known especially with the growing football team. Like it or not football does create excitement and when CSU Pueblo gets a national championship or two under it's belt they will really be known.
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Old 06-22-2010, 09:55 PM
 
Location: Pueblo - Colorado's Second City
10,269 posts, read 11,654,972 times
Reputation: 3097
Quote:
Originally Posted by goyanks57 View Post
And obviously, every other small school in the state.
Well right now it is a small school, only 5,000 students. However that should not be that way for long as CSU Pueblo is growing up lol
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