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Old 07-21-2010, 07:47 PM
 
8,317 posts, read 27,147,642 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by downtownnola View Post
I-25 between Denver and Fort Collins has to be the most aggrivating stretch of interstate in Colorado IMO. There simply isn't enough lane capacity to carry the traffic, which leads to congestion and lack of smooth traffic flow.
This is the unsustainable cycle: More highways leads to more sprawl. More sprawl causes more traffic. More traffic leads to more highways and lanes. More highways and lanes leads to more sprawl. It's like a dog chasing its tail. It never ends and it's stupidly destructive. If you want adequate roads, don't build more of the damned things--KILL THE SPRAWL! Otherwise, there will be 12 lanes and it still won't be enough--and the Front Range will be a traffic-choked s***hole just like southern California. You would think after a half-century of this bull**** across this once great country, the sheeple would finally get it, but they apparently don't.
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Old 07-21-2010, 07:57 PM
 
Location: Everywhere and Nowhere
14,131 posts, read 28,498,763 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzlover View Post
This is the unsustainable cycle: More highways leads to more sprawl. More sprawl causes more traffic. More traffic leads to more highways and lanes. More highways and lanes leads to more sprawl. It's like a dog chasing its tail. It never ends and it's stupidly destructive. If you want adequate roads, don't build more of the damned things--KILL THE SPRAWL! Otherwise, there will be 12 lanes and it still won't be enough--and the Front Range will be a traffic-choked s***hole just like southern California. You would think after a half-century of this bull**** across this once great country, the sheeple would finally get it, but they apparently don't.
The answer is to change zoning practices to allow higher density living closer to the city and/or more high rises downtown. Assume everyone's in favor of that, right?
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Old 07-21-2010, 09:01 PM
 
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I agree with the OP, except that Boston drivers are worse.

My major pet peeves in CO are failure to signal a turns and drivers in the left (aka PASSING) lane on I-70 W going below the speed limit up the hill.
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Old 07-21-2010, 09:26 PM
 
5,090 posts, read 14,177,192 times
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Driving a car is frustrating and dangerous. If you are extremely annoyed by other drivers, you may also become a culprit. For if you become so emotional, you can become out of control and be more of a hazard.

I avoid that issue as much as I can by driving less.

I do not drive on highways, for I have no place to be in a hurry; I also leave for my destination with enough time to get there slowly.

I do not drive on Friday and Saturday night because I am a senior; and I do not have the energy or the desire to be around the hormones of the fast dangerous youth and obsessed males and females in the mating quests.

I drive generally to stores, during the week, when there is less traffic. I avoid driving on weekends and holidays. I drive mostly during the daytime and avoid the night. Most of the time, I do not have a need to drive in bad weather because I have no schedule.

I walk when I can. I take public transit when it is convenient or even if it is not, for time is my own and I can selfishly and slowly waste it--since I do not work.

When I drive, and others bother me or I see an erratic driver--I pull over; let them pass. I avoid the confrontation as there is no competition that I have to win.

So, I leave the battles, the hazards and the stress to others. I try hard not to get into other driver's way--even if I am right and driving lawfully.

Yet, I still have not become mild, when I am a pedestrian. For, when a driver cuts me off, at a crosswalk or when I am leaving the curve--I engage them and I challenge them and point out, in my New Yawk way, their mistake. Eh, gotta have some balls--Ya, knowatta mean!

Livecontent
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Old 07-21-2010, 09:40 PM
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
90,377 posts, read 109,281,438 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wanneroo View Post
I think up until the 1990's, Coloradans were nice drivers, but then the Californians started moving in en masse and they brought their bad habits with them.

If you want to see bad driving, on friday night in the winter, on I-70 to Summit County, everyone on there is in a race to see who can get to the resort first. I used to call them the "Friday Night Maniacs".
Oh, don't blame the Californians who came in the 90s. We came here in 1980 and I, in particular, thought Colorado had the worst drivers I had ever had to contend with, and I had driven in Chicago. No, no, no, it's not the Californians!
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Old 07-21-2010, 11:12 PM
 
9,840 posts, read 20,562,542 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CAVA1990 View Post
The answer is to change zoning practices to allow higher density living closer to the city and/or more high rises downtown. Assume everyone's in favor of that, right?
Hell no. Personally I have no interest living on top of thousands of people and them on top of me.

That just jacks up RE prices, especially land and makes it uncompetitive for business. People go elsewhere, unless there is something really great about the place.

Sprawl, I really don't care. If you look at google earth, most of Colorado is devoid of people living on it and if you rolled Colorado flat, it would be the size of the continental USA, which widens the chasm even more. I don't care because people should have the option. Plenty of people have relocated to downtown Denver to live in condo buildings or gentrified neighborhoods, yet there are many that prefer a house with a yard in the burbs. That's their business.

If people want to move to Pyongyang go for it, but don't tell me where to live.
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Old 07-21-2010, 11:19 PM
 
9,840 posts, read 20,562,542 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzlover View Post
This is the unsustainable cycle: More highways leads to more sprawl. More sprawl causes more traffic. More traffic leads to more highways and lanes. More highways and lanes leads to more sprawl. It's like a dog chasing its tail. It never ends and it's stupidly destructive. If you want adequate roads, don't build more of the damned things--KILL THE SPRAWL! Otherwise, there will be 12 lanes and it still won't be enough--and the Front Range will be a traffic-choked s***hole just like southern California. You would think after a half-century of this bull**** across this once great country, the sheeple would finally get it, but they apparently don't.
Build more roads is my answer. And build better ones.

The other night I was reading one of Peter Egan's great books of his automotive and motorcycling columns. One of the stories was from 1980 and his journey to find all the old pieces of Route 66. At that time there was no nostalgia for the ole 66 so much along the route was rather decrepit. He noted the joy of the network of 2 lane roads throughout the USA.

At the end reflecting on his trip, he realized without the interstates, those two lane roads would be clogged, dangerous places to be and no fun at all. The old Route 66 was a dangerous road, especially as time went on.

It is progress and the natural course of history. Totalitarian governments have already tried to run and control people and all this and it never works. Relax and let the natural order run it's course.
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Old 07-22-2010, 09:41 AM
 
8,317 posts, read 27,147,642 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wanneroo View Post
Build more roads is my answer. And build better ones.

The other night I was reading one of Peter Egan's great books of his automotive and motorcycling columns. One of the stories was from 1980 and his journey to find all the old pieces of Route 66. At that time there was no nostalgia for the ole 66 so much along the route was rather decrepit. He noted the joy of the network of 2 lane roads throughout the USA.

At the end reflecting on his trip, he realized without the interstates, those two lane roads would be clogged, dangerous places to be and no fun at all. The old Route 66 was a dangerous road, especially as time went on.

It is progress and the natural course of history. Totalitarian governments have already tried to run and control people and all this and it never works. Relax and let the natural order run it's course.
That's crap. Go read Asphalt Nation, or Getting There so you can understand what our socialized, politically-directed freeway and Interstate system has done to screw up this country. We had a great passenger transportation system in this country--called passenger trains--that was energy efficient, low environmental impact, and convenient--and ran with minimal taxpayer subsidy. We destroyed it and replaced it with something that is none of those things. By the way, the Interstate system you extoll so much was modeled almost exactly after the Autobahn--the brainchild of the most savage nationalist/socialist dictator ever to inhabit this planet--Adolph Hitler.

The sheeple who cling to the idea that we can continue to build highways and sprawl are going to be absolutely b****-slapped to the ground, financially and socially, when it becomes apparent--and in not a very long time--that the whole mess is completely unsustainable and was a complete waste and misallocation of depleting natural and financial resources.

Building more highways to cure bad traffic is as logical as saying that cancer cures smoking.

Last edited by jazzlover; 07-22-2010 at 09:53 AM..
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Old 07-22-2010, 10:21 AM
 
9,840 posts, read 20,562,542 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzlover View Post
That's crap. Go read Asphalt Nation, or Getting There so you can understand what our socialized, politically-directed freeway and Interstate system has done to screw up this country. We had a great passenger transportation system in this country--called passenger trains--that was energy efficient, low environmental impact, and convenient--and ran with minimal taxpayer subsidy. We destroyed it and replaced it with something that is none of those things. By the way, the Interstate system you extoll so much was modeled almost exactly after the Autobahn--the brainchild of the most savage nationalist/socialist dictator ever to inhabit this planet--Adolph Hitler.

The sheeple who cling to the idea that we can continue to build highways and sprawl are going to be absolutely b****-slapped to the ground, financially and socially, when it becomes apparent--and in not a very long time--that the whole mess is completely unsustainable and was a complete waste and misallocation of depleting natural and financial resources.

Building more highways to cure bad traffic is as logical as saying that cancer cures smoking.
Well for starters the Autobahn was not the brainchild of adolf hitler. He had nothing to do with the first autobahn built in 1931 and merely tapped into building more as a way to keep people employed.

I love interstate highways, they give me the freedom to quickly go to places I need to get to. It enables the free movement of commerce and people around the country, much quicker than slow paced and dangerous 2 lane roads. If anything we need more roads and larger, better prepared ones as well to bring the speeds up.

Resources? Well at least for cars, there will always be cars in our lifetime, whether fueled by gasoline, diesel, bio fuels, electricity, natural gas, whatever, there are plenty of workable options out there.

Trains got pulled back some because they are slow and inefficient for moving smaller loads of goods and people themselves. I think that is fairly common knowledge. Air travel also replaced some of it as well. Trains have a purpose, but they are not efficient for a lot of things.

I'm not going to read Asphalt Nation because I have no interest in reading self hating, self agonizing books about how bad we are as people.

Some people don't like cars and I don't think they do because the car represents personal freedom and they just can't have that. They have to have control and have to have things their way.
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Old 07-22-2010, 10:26 AM
 
Location: Everywhere and Nowhere
14,131 posts, read 28,498,763 times
Reputation: 6847
Quote:
Originally Posted by wanneroo View Post
Well for starters the Autobahn was not the brainchild of adolf hitler. He had nothing to do with the first autobahn built in 1931 and merely tapped into building more as a way to keep people employed.
Actually the model for both the Autobahn and the interstate highways was the George Washington Memorial Parkway here in Northern Virginia which I'll be driving on in about 20 minutes from now. A fantastically scenic route along the Potomac.
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