Amendments 60 & 61, Proposition 101 (calculated, salary, tax rates)

[davidv]

Originally Posted by Crusis

As long as Colorado is basically a sanctuary state, I'll be voting for these measures. If we have money to pay for non-citizen deadbeats, then we are taking too much out of the pockets of productive citizens who have a right to be here. Illegals have no right to be here, they are breaking the laws of the nation I love, and I am interested to see with the reduction in state funds if the libs who seem to run this place will cut services to citizens or illegals.

If we have enough money to support those who scoff at our immigration laws, we have too much money. Time to give it back to those who it really belongs too, since they're the ones EARNING it.

I saw one blog that said these initiatives would save a family making about $60,000 over $1,800 a year in reduced fees and property taxes. Yay! That's money that will stay where it belongs, in the hands of those most productive and deserving. THE ONE WHO WORKED FOR IT.

I am all for a security net for those who have worked and are now unemployed. I am all for good prisons and to think NO gov't is GOOD gov't is stupid. But it seems to me the more money these buffoons take from us, the more intrusive they get into our lives. Good gov't is gov't that stays out of your lives unless you truly need help. You can see this in all the zoning in Colorado. Fees for permits are insane! It's out of control. Time to take it back and whip those who think our money is theirs back into line.

Let's take a look at all of your issues.

1. Immigration Law is federal law, not a state law. As states are subordinate to the federal gov't, the state has NO CHOICE whether to allow illegal immigrants access to a variety of government services including, but not limited to, public schools, emergency room care, police protection, fire protection, and some welfare benefits. Eligibility for these programs are set by the federal government and administered by the local governments.

2. A family of four with a household income of $60000 will pay income tax of about $1912. (This is based on the fact that this family's AGI will be $41,700 after the standard deductions are taken, and Colorado tax rate is 4.63% of the AGI). The notion of saving $1800 out of $1912 is absurd.

3. Permit Fees are essentially user fees. You don't want taxes and you don't want user fees. What you are saying is that you want to get all the benefits of government and its infrastructure and its services, but you don't want to pay for it. You perceive that there is some sort of "waste" out there, but you couldn't point it out if asked.

To many of the tax busters, wasteful programs are programs that benefit other people. Good programs are programs that benefit them. There is a utopian society where there is little government, no taxes, and no public debt. It's called Somalia. Try living there sometime.

[Crusis]

I am for these ballot initiatives because they deprive the gov't money to continue to intrude into our lives.

Colorado has all the laws it needs, or at least 99% of them. Legislators who have no purpose except to make us THINK they are worthwhile pass intrusive and expensive laws while they are in session, raising our costs and taxes, making our cars more expensive to own, and generally being parasites on the public in a way that denies private industry and free enterprise capital to expand industry and create JOBS.

The opponents of these measures scream about how CO will lose 70,000 jobs because the gov't will lose billions of dollars. The left states that 101 will cost CO $2 Billion in fees.

Amendments 60 -61, Proposition 101 will bury Colorado, but not in debt - Denver Politics Watchdog | Examiner.com

That is a LOT of money, I agree! Even if they've overstated the amount, which is likely considering the source, it's going to be a big blow to the state pocketbook. But is that pocketbook really the states? Or is it ours? What could private businesses or individuals do with that money? Spend it more efficiently than government, I assure you. I suspect that the economic expansion of a few billion in private hands will create a lot larger number of jobs than will be lost through the expenditures of notoriously inefficient government.

Amendment 60 and 61 prevents the state from using public debt to finance projects. GOOD! We can see how public debt is ruining our nation, we pay $600B a year on the national debt, IN INTEREST. Can we not see what building up debt does? If we quit doing stupid things like Los Angeles did with their $578,000,000,000 dollar high school, we can afford to pay for these with cash and have PLENTY of money left over. Schools should be functional and educational, not architectural marvels of progressive indoctrination. The opponents lament that school bound property taxes will be cut 50% and no money will be there to replace that loss.

That's too bad. The schools near my home look like we're trying to leave monuments to the ages, not educate our kids. We need to quit spending money on pretty buildings and reevaluate our priorities. The only way to force politicians to do that as taxpayers is to choke off the funds.

Yes, I have kids. 5, 6 and 11. All girls, marvelous wonders of learning and perception that don't need to be taught anything else in school except real history, mathematics, science, and language arts. My wife and I home school our girls because public schools are so dysfunctional. More money is not the solution for schools. Less money and a focus on actual education is the solution.

Cut sports programs. Cut band. Parents that want their kids to play an instrument or throw a football can organize their own systems at their expense, the state has no business subsidizing these things.

Long post, I know. But it's time to force the small into government, not continue to feed the monster that tells us how to live instead of us telling them how to govern. Take the purse strings back. Force efficiency into the system. In my opinion, it's too bad we can't do this at the national level.

Please vote yes on 60, 61, and 101.

[CAVA1990]

Originally Posted by Crusis

What could private businesses or individuals do with that money?

In the case of large banks and companies, hoard it and use it to buy up competitors. In the case of consumers, paying off debt. Neither is doing doodly squat to pull the economy out of recession.

[Crusis]

Originally Posted by aspendailynews

The Colorado Legislative Council Staff, which analyzes fiscal impact of legislation, has found that “a homeowner earning $55,000 per year with a $295,000 home would save approximately $1,800 annually in taxes” if all three measures were to pass.

Amendments 60 and 61 popular with voters | Aspen Daily News Online (http://www.aspendailynews.com/section/home/142399 - broken link)

$1800 isn't my number, it's the lefties number. I actually assumed it was low since it's being touted by the people that hate these propositions.

In regard to #3, I'm for user fees, but why do I have to pay more for my new truck than someone with a 30 year old Impala does? If it's truly a user fee, it wouldn't be 'progressive', it would be the same for everyone just as a toll road is. Aren't we all entitles to equal treatment under the law?

[parfleche]

the way I figure it I will vote yes on all 3, I've spent my whole life being productive and making my way and for what? most people on welfare and SSD live better than me. these are not 2 separate issues, it's about taking my hard earned money and giving it away like candy. the gov is tooooo big. I have no problem supporting schools and my local library but lets keep it local ,every day I see my useless neighbor younger than me collecting SSD cause she is a drug addict alcoholic and it makes me want to puke I'm done supporting this crap. use our tax and the new FEE money for our good or loose it jerks

[jazzlover]

People still don't get it. I'm as upset as anyone about wasteful government spending. BUT, these Amendments will not solve that. In fact, they will have negative impacts on the basic governmental services (law enforcement, libraries, etc.) that most people think are pretty essential, and they will do almost nothing to stop the kind of spending on ineffective welfare programs, supporting illegal immigrants, and the like--because most of those programs are federally mandated programs that the Amendments can not touch. So, the people supporting the Amendments will be voting to gut the local and state programs that are closest to the people and that provide essential services the most people actually want, while the stuff the Amendment supporters hate will continue unabated. A classic case of "ready, fire, aim."

[Josseppie]

Originally Posted by Crusis

I am voting for these measures because these measures deny Colorado the chance to spend money on issues that aren't the domain of government. Those include supporting illegal immigrants, but other topics as well.

Again these are two separate issues. Voting on these measures will not solve these problems but makes things worse for the "average folks" like yourself who are just trying to make a living in Colorado.

[deckdoc]

As a small businessperson I've read enough about these propositions to realize that every multistate corp will pull out of Colorado before the roads deteriorate too much to travel on~ and no businesses will move into a state that is guarenteed to be unable to provide adequate services to them. I personally will depart a state to one that provides at least a modicum of services. That takes out the spending of money I brought with me from another state where I made it. May have to sell out to an illegal because no one else will be willing to buy here.

School class sizes will go to about 500 per teacher, who will have a full staff of bosses, super, principal, secretary~ who will be making the money that is available for the school.

The fire depts will go to stations that are totally unmanned~ if you wish someone to repond to a fire~ you will have to hire private firefighters like rural metro in Az. Every policeman will be busy writing traffic tickets cause that will keep them hired~ no time to just answer a call.

These bills are the starting point of dominoes~ but make up your own mind!

Just ask yourself which businesses want to live in a third world country~ if they wanted that they would already have moved their jobs overseas.

[morebits]

This thread is based on emotion, not facts.

Fact: CO property taxes are spiraling upward when property values are in fact going down.

This is illegal, that's what the revolutionary war was all about. Wake up people!

[parfleche]

Get rid of the Feds and give back States rights.the South was so right wish they won so we wouldn't be in this mess now. anyway working folks can revolt they will at this point