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Old 09-23-2010, 07:37 PM
 
Location: Everywhere and Nowhere
14,132 posts, read 25,868,141 times
Reputation: 6789

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Quote:
Originally Posted by parfleche View Post
the South was so right wish they won so we wouldn't be in this mess now. anyway working folks can revolt they will at this point
I believe Colorado sided with the "wrong guys". Have you considered relocating to good ol' Dixie, where more folks share your reb values?
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Old 09-23-2010, 08:24 PM
 
Location: mancos
7,007 posts, read 6,043,256 times
Reputation: 4447
Quote:
Originally Posted by CAVA1990 View Post
I believe Colorado sided with the "wrong guys". Have you considered relocating to good ol' Dixie, where more folks share your reb values?
nice it took you over 20 words to say and contribute nothing.and don't try to make it personal with your suggestion about moving to Dixie I stopped falling for that crap
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Old 09-23-2010, 09:26 PM
 
Location: Colorado Springs
17,335 posts, read 8,171,934 times
Reputation: 17147
Quote:
Originally Posted by morebits View Post
This thread is based on emotion, not facts.

Fact: CO property taxes are spiraling upward when property values are in fact going down.

This is illegal, that's what the revolutionary war was all about. Wake up people!
Well, if you want to post about facts, please be more accurate about the reasons for the Revolutionary War. The tax issue was representative of the complaints the colonists had against Great Britain. However, the issues were far more complex than just taxes.

And exactly what law is being broken that makes it illegal?
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Old 09-23-2010, 09:27 PM
 
Location: Colorado Springs
17,335 posts, read 8,171,934 times
Reputation: 17147
Quote:
Originally Posted by parfleche View Post
Get rid of the Feds and give back States rights.the South was so right wish they won so we wouldn't be in this mess now. anyway working folks can revolt they will at this point
So you're not proud of the United States of America?
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Old 09-23-2010, 10:45 PM
 
Location: Pueblo - Colorado's Second City
12,078 posts, read 20,043,803 times
Reputation: 4095
Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzlover View Post
People still don't get it. I'm as upset as anyone about wasteful government spending. BUT, these Amendments will not solve that. In fact, they will have negative impacts on the basic governmental services (law enforcement, libraries, etc.) that most people think are pretty essential, and they will do almost nothing to stop the kind of spending on ineffective welfare programs, supporting illegal immigrants, and the like--because most of those programs are federally mandated programs that the Amendments can not touch. So, the people supporting the Amendments will be voting to gut the local and state programs that are closest to the people and that provide essential services the most people actually want, while the stuff the Amendment supporters hate will continue unabated. A classic case of "ready, fire, aim."
What I find interesting is that I agree with you 100%. That itself should get all of the posters attention as you and I are both Colorado natives that usually see things from a different perspective, and are not shy about discussing it. So the fact that we agree that these amendments will do more harm then good actually says something.

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Old 09-24-2010, 05:27 AM
 
Location: Everywhere and Nowhere
14,132 posts, read 25,868,141 times
Reputation: 6789
Quote:
Originally Posted by morebits View Post
This thread is based on emotion, not facts.

Fact: CO property taxes are spiraling upward when property values are in fact going down.

This is illegal, that's what the revolutionary war was all about. Wake up people!
Perhaps you don't understand that property taxes are based on assessed value mainly as a way to apportion them fairly between taxpayers, not to determine the overall amount collected. That's calculated based on the spending needs of your state or local governments. What you're likely referring to as spiralling are tax rates. That's necessary to ensure that as values fall, public services can still be paid for.

If you don't like the level or the cost of public services where you live you can work with your elected officials to have them reduced or move to another place that doesn't offer the same level of services or is able to provide them at a lower cost to taxpayers. California is a great example of how forcing spending reductions through voter mandated caps on taxes doesn't work out very well.

If you want to enact a much more effective method of reducing spending and taxes you should pass a law requiring all public employees to be hired "at will" (no unions or collective bargaining) and then mandate salary reductions in deflationary times like these. That way you can maintain services but at a reduced cost. I would vote for something like that.

Last edited by CAVA1990; 09-24-2010 at 05:41 AM..
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Old 09-24-2010, 10:27 AM
 
8,317 posts, read 24,771,632 times
Reputation: 9044
Very good post, cava--you understand. morebits is completely misinformend and understands nothing about how the tax system works. He needs to go take a civics class.

The fact is that almost every state and local agency in Colorado has or is planning to make to significant staff cuts, salary reductions, and other austerity measures due to our current depressed economic situation. The one BIG exception to that is for state and local programs that are mandated by the federal government. To say it one more time--the Amendments won't and can't touch those federally mandated programs, so they are going to go right along whether the Amendments pass or not. The only thing the Amendments will do is to gut the agencies and programs--along with most local control of them--that the people of Colorado have actually said that they want, while the stuff jammed down out throats by the Feds just goes on unabated. How can anyone with an IQ over 20 think that is good policy, much less write a POS like that into the State Constitution where it will be extremely difficult and expensive to fix later?
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Old 09-24-2010, 07:48 PM
 
Location: mancos
7,007 posts, read 6,043,256 times
Reputation: 4447
Quote:
Originally Posted by phetaroi View Post
So you're not proud of the United States of America?
I am very proud of My country. just don't like the path we are heading down by vote buying rulers giving away everything and anything for votes and power.you are not the first one to try to put words in My mouth and not the last.I know your game so go play by yourself
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Old 09-24-2010, 07:59 PM
 
20,062 posts, read 37,199,574 times
Reputation: 17655
Group: Keep this topic Colorado-specific. Discussions of the civil war, state's rights, etc, belong in P&OC.
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Old 09-24-2010, 10:18 PM
 
Location: Colorado Springs
17,335 posts, read 8,171,934 times
Reputation: 17147
Quote:
Originally Posted by parfleche View Post
I am very proud of My country. just don't like the path we are heading down by vote buying rulers giving away everything and anything for votes and power.you are not the first one to try to put words in My mouth and not the last.I know your game so go play by yourself
No, I'm not playing a game. I truly do not understand how a person can claim they are proud of America and they think it is the greatest country world, and then on the other hand say, so now let's completely change the way our country does business? And that is how drastic I think these initiatives are. From my perspective they are an abrupt about face to the way this nation operates. I have no problem with adjustments, but this is radical, and I think it will forever change the face of this state and nation if it passes and it stands for any significant length of time.

My mother was quite poor and qualified at some times in her life for welfare, but she didn't believe in it, and never accepted it.

On the other hand, my former secretary is adamantly against social security, but accepts it. Is adamantly against the federal and state funding that built our interstates, but drives on them everyday. Doesn't believe in the national park system, but visits them on a vacation each year. She's never gone to a political meeting in her life. Never attended a governmental budget hearing. Now suddenly she's a rabid tea-partier. Sorry, I just don't get it. She doesn't want to look for real solutions, she just wants to slash.
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