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Thread summary:

Pueblo: conserving, water problems, online article, new arrivals, water taps, expensive commodity

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Old 07-06-2007, 10:12 PM
 
566 posts, read 1,703,754 times
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Sorry to report that CO may be following in CA's footsteps. We now have a Democrat Governor and legislature. But it's still not as wacko as CA. It's been said that liberal ideas can only be implemented through deceit. That's what's going on in CO. They say it's not a tax increase when it really is. A liberal agenda is being dressed up and sold as moderate. But in CA they don't even try to dress it up. The liberals hold such a strong political position that for all practical purposes it's a one-party system in CA. No need to hide their agenda. It will take a while for CO to sink to that level.
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Old 07-07-2007, 12:26 AM
 
8,317 posts, read 25,099,702 times
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cobmw,

Apparently, you have forgotten that the root of "conservative" is "conserve," not "consume." I see nothing in your various posts that says anything about actually appreciating Colorado's heritage or its natural beauty--just blathering about building more, using more, wasting more. That is no true conservative philosophy--it's just hedonism, pure and simple.

There are a lot of conservatives, me being one, who don't buy that line. I will repeat a quote that I have posted several times before in these forums. It certainly was not written by any "flaming liberal" that you seem to enjoy chastizing.

One of our greatest Presidents, Theodore Roosevelt (a Republican) was one of the earliest champions of conservation. Today's conservatives (and liberals) should take time to read his writings on conservation. He was a century ahead of his time. We should heed his words and warnings. He had it figured out.

Teddy Roosevelt said this a century ago:

"We of an older generation can get along with what we have, though with growing hardship; but in your full manhood and womanhood you will want what nature once so bountifully supplied and man so thoughtlessly destroyed; and because of that want you will reproach us, not for what we have used, but for what we have wasted...So any nation which in its youth lives only for the day, reaps without sowing, and consumes without husbanding, must expect the penalty of the prodigal whose labor could with difficulty find him the bare means of life."
--"Arbor Day - A Message to the School-Children of the United States" April 15, 1907

So, enjoy your 5 mpg motor home, etc., etc. Maybe there will be enough fuel, water and whatever for us to squander it for our own pleasure without much regard to the future. Maybe. But do you really want to bet your grandchildren's lives on it?
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Old 07-07-2007, 09:21 AM
 
Location: Colorado
431 posts, read 2,500,615 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by francowell View Post
EscapeCalifornia

you wrote: The world has plenty of water. Its just in the wrong form and in the wrong places most of the time.

In many instances when these ingenious people have attempted to correct natures mistake of putting the water in the wrong place, they have caused far more harm than good.

regards...Franco
IMO--Nature or God, if you will, does not make mistakes. Only man in their questionable wisdom do. We were given brains and intelligence to do with. But what we do with it is the problem. Not nature's or God's.
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Old 07-07-2007, 09:28 AM
 
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Conservation is a good thing. Nature should be preserved for use by man. Roosevelt created Yellowstone Park to preserve it so that people could enjoy it. Environmentalists create wilderness areas then tear out the roads to keep people out. The same thing is happening in FC where tax money goes to buy land that could be used for development. Then signs and fences are put up to keep people out. Parks are great, the more the merrier. Using tax money to buy a nice view for a few extremists is nuts.

Environmentalist scare tactics don't work with me. In the 60's it was the coming ice age that we should fear. In the 70's it was food shortages that would destroy us. In the 80's the overpopulation scare. Now man is causing global warming. It's all baloney intended to create a need and power for people who ought to get honest jobs. The US is the nicest, cleanest counrty with the greatest economy and standard of living. My kids will develop the technology to ensure that this continues. Unless the "make do with less crowd" ties their hands with feel good nonsense.
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Old 07-07-2007, 10:46 AM
 
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Actually, Yellowstone was created by Ulysses Grant (also a Republican). Theodore Roosevelt created a good chunk of the national forests--in great part because those forest lands were being exploited to the point of destruction by people who had no vision beyond the ends of their noses. He saw the threat and acted to protect the land for future generations. Undoubtedly, Teddy would have been called an "environmentalist kook" by some of today's misguided conservatives. Trouble is, modern day Americans have foresaken any kind of conservation ethic. We now import 70% of our petroleum, are about to be a net importer of food, and are squandering our remaining open spaces, agricultural land, and once abundant natural resources like there is no tomorrow. If we keep it up, there won't be a tomorrow. And, I'm sorry, I don't consider destroying this country's irreplacable natural resources and heritage for the purpose of wanton consumption an "honest job." I call it depriving those who will come after us of a viable future. I don't consider myself an environmentalist, but I do consider myself a strident conservationist.
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Old 07-07-2007, 11:42 AM
 
566 posts, read 1,703,754 times
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You are right about Roosevelt. He did create many park lands but Yellowstone as not among them. I stand corrected.

I do not follow the rest of your logic. It seems to be of the "man should leave no footprint" ilk. Nature means everything. Man is just a nuisance who destroys everything he touches. It won't sell here.

What does importing oil and food have to do with conservation? We are supposed to use so much less oil and eat less so that we don't have to import these items? What about all the clothes, electronics, machinery, etc., that we import? Do without those also? We have oil (ANWR and other domestic possibilities). Eventually, far into the furture, oil will be scarcer and it will make good sense to switch to something else. But not until then. And if nuclear is good enough for 70% of Western Europe's needs than why is it no good here?

Worry about losing our open space is misplaced. There is more forest land today than 100 years ago because non productive farm land is reverting to forest. Have you ever flown over our country? It's mostly empty space.

What I hear is a lot of alarmist bunk. People are evil. They ruin everything. We need to reduce our standard of living. The environment is on the verge of destruction. Our kids will inherit a mess. Look to us - we have the answer and we can save you. I say just get out of the way and stop impeding the progress that has made this a great country.

I'll repeat my question. Based on where you'd like to see us headed we are going to have lots of people out of work. How many will you hire? Have you ever hired anyone?
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Old 07-07-2007, 08:21 PM
 
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cobmw,

Yes, I have been hiring, employing, and supervising people for most of my varied career. Most recently, I managed 15 employees.

And, the children and granchildren of this current spoiled generation ARE going to inherit a mess, and we are making it worse all of the time. We are both consuming more than we can afford, and piling up a huge debt--both privately and publicly to finance it. We've gotten away with it because a bunch of that debt has been bought by other countries, most notably China, of late--who I hardly consider to be a "bosom buddy" of the U.S. Eventually, those countries are going to figure out that they are trading tangible goods and resources for basically worthless paper. When they do, we will be up the proverbial creek without a paddle. Though the instruments of speculation are different this time around, we are in the same kind of "funny money" speculative economy that eventually plunged the U.S. (and the world) into the Great Depression in the 1930's. The only question I have about that is whether it will be a deflationary depression like the U.S. suffered in the 1930's, or a hyperinflationary depression like what brought down the Weimar Republic in Germany--and allowed Hitler to gain power. Either way, it's gonna suck--and, unlike the last Great Depression, I don't know whether we spoiled and coddled Americans of today will be able to stand up to it.
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Old 07-07-2007, 09:32 PM
 
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Strangely enough I agree with everything you said. I am a nationalist. I think it's time the US started looking out for itself. Debassing our currency and shipping jobs overseas is going to get us into a heap of trouble. I don't believe in corporate globalization or in any sort of global government including mergers within the Americas. As for the real threat to our environment it comes from uncontrolled immigration. Americans are reproducing at rates below that needed to sustain ourselves. But with massive, uncontrolled immigration our population grows anyway. Food for thought when we are arguing about where to get water from or why our roads are so crowded.
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Old 07-08-2007, 07:36 PM
 
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cobmw,

I also agree with you on the immigration issue. If one reads my other posts, I am absolutely NOT a racist. I believe that the Hispanic heritage that runs deep in this region is worthy of respect. After all, all of Colorado west of the Continental Divide, and eastern Colorado south of the Arkansas River was once part of Mexico. That said, I believe this country has both a right and an obligation to decide who and how many immigrate to this country. We have passed the point, both environmentally and economically, that we can afford the luxury of an open door.

The other reason that we have so many illegal immigrants in this country is that they will actually work at jobs that are apparently below the dignity of today's Americans. I think that speaks shamefully of we Americans. As an example, when I go to the mall (which is as infrequently as I can), it depresses me to see the number of teenage "mall rats" running around. Apparently, a teenager getting a summer or afternoon job is beneath the dignity of today's population. When I was a kid (and I didn't grow up poor), I was expected to work in the summers, which I did from age 12 on. And, yup, I did some "grunt" work that most of today's American kids wouldn't think of dirtying their hands doing. And, I had fun doing it. I didn't wind up in trouble with the law, use drugs, get my girlfriend pregnant, spray graffiti on anything I could find, or shoot up a school.

When I went to a small state college for my degree, I actually had saved enough money from working (and I continued to work summers while in college) that I was able to pay for most all of my expenses myself. I didn't get or need a student loan.

I guess you and I, cobmw, have hijacked this thread way off topic--but, like many things, a lot of it ties together. Like a friend of mine said, "Years back, people had a little bit of money and a lot of values; today they have a lot of money and no values."
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Old 07-09-2007, 10:45 AM
 
Location: Wherabouts Unknown!
7,754 posts, read 16,452,867 times
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Default Water issues not limited to Colorado

Here is an interesting article I just came across.

We're running out of water

regards...Franco
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