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Old 10-22-2010, 03:39 PM
 
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Well, there a ton of Honda CR-V's chugging around Colorado just fine. A friend has a CR-V AWD with nearly 200K on it and he regularly drives back and forth clear across Colorado. He plans on keeping to 300K. Like the Subarus, not the fastest thing on the block, but they do OK and get decent fuel economy. wanneroo's comment that 2-3 mpg difference may not mean much to him, but it will mean plenty to people when fuel is $6-$8 per gallon--and that is coming faster than anyone thinks, certainly within the life a new vehicle purchased today. Drive the CR-V for awhile in Colorado--it may do you just fine. If not, sell it then. Maybe by then, the auto manufacturers and our government will get their heads out of their ***es and some small AWD SUV's with turbodiesels will be available in this country that WILL get near 40 mpg on the highway (they are already selling them overseas).
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Old 10-22-2010, 03:46 PM
 
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I'd bring the CRV to Colorado and see how it does for you. If you're seeing a few minor maintenance issues with it due to age and address them now, then it should be able to give you many more years of good service here.

I'm a Subie fan for all-around transportation in the area, but having to lay out the money to get a newer one ... when you already own a capable vehicle ... doesn't pencil out.

The Miata, of course ... is a good vehicle for Colorado transport most of the year.
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Old 10-22-2010, 05:00 PM
 
Location: Edina, MN, USA
7,572 posts, read 8,977,808 times
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You all have me rethinking this. Bummer~I was getting excited about driving a new car with all the bells & whistles. My mechanic said the same thing today - I asked him if he was moving with me. Do you know how hard it is to find a "good, honest" mechanic?
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Old 10-22-2010, 05:39 PM
 
9,846 posts, read 22,575,838 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzlover View Post
Well, there a ton of Honda CR-V's chugging around Colorado just fine. A friend has a CR-V AWD with nearly 200K on it and he regularly drives back and forth clear across Colorado. He plans on keeping to 300K. Like the Subarus, not the fastest thing on the block, but they do OK and get decent fuel economy. wanneroo's comment that 2-3 mpg difference may not mean much to him, but it will mean plenty to people when fuel is $6-$8 per gallon--and that is coming faster than anyone thinks, certainly within the life a new vehicle purchased today. Drive the CR-V for awhile in Colorado--it may do you just fine. If not, sell it then. Maybe by then, the auto manufacturers and our government will get their heads out of their ***es and some small AWD SUV's with turbodiesels will be available in this country that WILL get near 40 mpg on the highway (they are already selling them overseas).
A 2-3 mpg gallon difference wont add up to anything, even if gas is $6-$8 a gallon which at the moment with tons of supply and a slow economy, even premium gas for me has been sitting at $2.75. Most people don't have cars longer than 10 years so if gas is $6-$8 a gallon in 2020, I'll worry about that then.

Until then I have to live in today. Even if gas is higher, don't care, I'm not willing to compromise my comfort and safety to save 20 cents, some things are worth paying for. AWD and great snow tires and I have no worries.

CR-V's I would rank second to the RAV4 in poor handling characteristics. Again I had a similar amount of time in all these vehicles. We even had a few people barf in the CR-V. The RAV4 we were replacing tires on every few hours. CR-V was almost as bad.

Subaru has looked at turbodiesels and came close to putting one in the new Legacy and Outback, but have held off for now, because the market demand isn't there yet. Other manufacturers including Nissan have also looked at it as well and reached similar conclusions.
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Old 10-22-2010, 05:57 PM
 
Location: Edina, MN, USA
7,572 posts, read 8,977,808 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wanneroo View Post
CR-V's I would rank second to the RAV4 in poor handling characteristics. Again I had a similar amount of time in all these vehicles. We even had a few people barf in the CR-V. The RAV4 we were replacing tires on every few hours. CR-V was almost as bad.

.
This I really don't get. Nobody has barfed in mine (OK, my dog did - she gets car sick if not in the front). I did get new tires last year so that was maybe 53,000 miles on the first set - not bad.
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Old 10-22-2010, 06:09 PM
 
9,846 posts, read 22,575,838 times
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Originally Posted by Umbria View Post
This I really don't get. Nobody has barfed in mine (OK, my dog did - she gets car sick if not in the front). I did get new tires last year so that was maybe 53,000 miles on the first set - not bad.
We were pushing these on a race track for a dynamic comparison on behalf of a certain manufacturer. Basically it was a course set up with emergency lane changes, panic braking stops, slaloms, acceleration lanes and so on. We set a speed for each obstacle and the participants were able to compare a vehicle and it's competitors side by side and how they performed dynamically.

The one program where the RAV and CR-V were involved they were making people sick due to the sloppy ride and severe weigh transfer. Plus eating tires like crazy.
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Old 10-22-2010, 06:20 PM
 
26,111 posts, read 48,696,623 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wanneroo View Post
We were pushing these on a race track for a dynamic comparison on behalf of a certain manufacturer. Basically it was a course set up with emergency lane changes, panic braking stops, slaloms, acceleration lanes and so on. We set a speed for each obstacle and the participants were able to compare a vehicle and it's competitors side by side and how they performed dynamically.

The one program where the RAV and CR-V were involved they were making people sick due to the sloppy ride and severe weigh transfer. Plus eating tires like crazy.
Great stories, thanks for posting them. Reminds me of some truck testing for the Army we had performed back in the early 1980's at Aberdeen Proving Grounds, in MD. They ran a semi tractor, with a trailer full of computer gear, around the "washboard road" for 3 days. The computers ran fine, the drivers were actually hospitalized for bleeding kidneys.

The trucks also passed all tests for solar heat gain (they "baked" it for 2 days but the FOUR a/c units worked to spec), pummeled it with high pressure sprays for X hours to prove water tightness, tested its special exterior coatings for resistance to chemical warfare and tested its pressurized air-tightness against biological warfare.
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Old 10-23-2010, 11:41 PM
CTC
 
Location: Pagosa Springs, CO/North Port,FL
666 posts, read 1,457,786 times
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Originally Posted by Umbria View Post
Hello, I went out today and took a close look at the Outback & Forester. Both look excellent so I'm thinking I may say audios to the Rav. The new design of the Outback gives it more of a SUV look and the Forester has a cute tush. Now - 4 or 6 cyl for the Outback???????? The Forester still has the turbo and when I asked why the Outback stopped with the turbo she said people just weren't ordering it. They went with fuel efficiency. S-l-o-w-l-y but surely this will all happen.
Her son moved out to CO to go to school and he loves his 4 cyl. Outback

I have not looked at the VW but I know nothing about diesel.

So~~~~~~~~~~~~~~thank you all for your input on this Ya just got to love CD! I get so much good info on here.
yeah it had something to do with people not ordering the turbo-it cost a lot more. One had to order a premium package (leather etc to get the turbo) and get less MPG etc. When we lived in Billings,MT-it was so rare to see a turbo Outback-we actually had a dealer leave a note on the windshield offering to buy it-glad we have it-I love this car for spirited mountain driving-if one comes your way for a good price, buy it-great car

One of my Leadville buddies, got rid of his Jetta (very probmatic) for a Forester-has been very happy
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Old 10-25-2010, 10:02 AM
 
8,317 posts, read 29,357,988 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wanneroo View Post
We were pushing these on a race track for a dynamic comparison on behalf of a certain manufacturer. Basically it was a course set up with emergency lane changes, panic braking stops, slaloms, acceleration lanes and so on. We set a speed for each obstacle and the participants were able to compare a vehicle and it's competitors side by side and how they performed dynamically.

The one program where the RAV and CR-V were involved they were making people sick due to the sloppy ride and severe weigh transfer. Plus eating tires like crazy.
All of those I would characterize as symptoms of worn or inadequate shocks and struts--a problem easily corrected for a few hundred dollars with heavier duty aftermarket offerings.

Years ago, I owned a Ford Bronco II--infamous for supposedly being prone to rollovers. Within the first week that I owned it, I figured out that its springs and shocks were way too "soft" and underdesigned for the vehicle's weight. I replaced them with heavy-duty aftermarket springs and shocks (about a $400 job back then)--and drove the vehicle for over 10 years without ever an inkling of it wanting to roll, despite some very, uh, spirited mountain driving and 4-wheeling on my part. The stiffer suspension actually improved the ride because the vehicle did not want to "wallow" as much. Unfortunately, many vehicles--especially AWD's and 4WD's--come out of the factory with overly "soft" suspensions. I've owned or driven for work around two dozen 4WD vehicles in the last 40 years. In all but about 4 of them, I wound up beefing up or replacing springs and shocks because what came from the factory was inadequate.

One other note: I detect in some of the other posts the typical American "phobia" for diesel engines. I've been around diesel engines all of my life, and I will take one (when they are available) over a gas engine any time. Way more reliable, much longer-lived, with much better fuel economy than a gas engine of comparable size--with way more torque. (As the old saying goes, you brag about horsepower, but you drive on torque.) I keep hoping the GM will actually sell the 4.5 turbodiesel V8 that is has already designed and certified for its 1/2 and 3/4 ton pickups--word is that it gets around 30 mpg highway in the 3/4 ton 4x4 truck. I might actually consider springing for one last new vehicle if that came along. But, will Government Motors build it? They'd be dumb not to, but nobody says that they are smart.
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Old 10-25-2010, 11:25 AM
 
9,846 posts, read 22,575,838 times
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Originally Posted by jazzlover View Post
All of those I would characterize as symptoms of worn or inadequate shocks and struts--a problem easily corrected for a few hundred dollars with heavier duty aftermarket offerings.

One other note: I detect in some of the other posts the typical American "phobia" for diesel engines. I've been around diesel engines all of my life, and I will take one (when they are available) over a gas engine any time. Way more reliable, much longer-lived, with much better fuel economy than a gas engine of comparable size--with way more torque. (As the old saying goes, you brag about horsepower, but you drive on torque.) I keep hoping the GM will actually sell the 4.5 turbodiesel V8 that is has already designed and certified for its 1/2 and 3/4 ton pickups--word is that it gets around 30 mpg highway in the 3/4 ton 4x4 truck. I might actually consider springing for one last new vehicle if that came along. But, will Government Motors build it? They'd be dumb not to, but nobody says that they are smart.
These were brand new vehicles we were using and there wasn't going to be any modifying going on, considering this was an official manufacturer program for what should be obvious reasons. For a vehicle like a RAV4, based on a road car platform there isn't much you can do anyways and while I am no suspension engineer, you have to watch what you modify and how you do it. For one thing doing such things voids warranties. Second making one mod can screw up the handling characteristics in another way.

It isn't like the old days, now cars are tested for years sometimes before production in all climates, on all surfaces in every place from Sweden to South Africa. They run millions of miles and in the case of a vehicle like the RAV it is "tuned" to your average couch potato american that wants a fluffy distant ride. The Subaru is a different mindset with it's demographic being customers that are enthusiasts and more serious about driving. Their cars reflect that. You can also dynamically compare a Camry to the new Legacy for instance. The Camry you feel completely disconnected from what the tires on the ground are doing and everything is "squishy", gear changing, steering, the ride. The Legacy on the other hand is very sharp with a good feel for everything without being harsh.

Talking with car manufacturers, including VP's at these companies, diesel is one of those things people here in the USA talk up, but when a diesel vehicle hits the market it doesn't sell. Manufacturers are open to it, but with the cost in the tens of millions of developing, passing guv regs, tooling, marketing and so on, they are going to have to have more proof that market demand exists. I can confirm that several manufacturers had short listed several mid size sedans for diesels until the global crisis in 2008 canned that idea. Vehicle sales fell for some companies more than 50% which switches everyone into survival and consolidation mode.
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