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Unread 04-26-2012, 03:36 PM
 
85 posts, read 87,518 times
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Default what about the other issues?

I have been watching the fracking sitution in NoCo with great interest. While various parties argue whether or not fracking wells are harmful to the environment, I was thinking about the other issues. In particular, would you really want to have a bunch of those rigs surrounding your house? I was always under the impression Coloradoans were passionate about the environment, the beautiful Rocky Mountains, the fresh clean air.

I have been reading what's been going on in Windsor and it's sad. The residents are not only being told these wells are going up in their neighborhoods, they are being told by company representatives that there isn't thing one they can do about it.

I think it would be unfortunate to look out my windows - maybe even across the street like that one in Fort Collins on the playground - and see multiple rigs blocking my view of the mountains or plains.

And the increased truck traffic - diesel fuel - has to impact the air quality. Even if it doesn't cause harm - it stinks. Anyone who's been behind a diesel truck has likely experienced this stink.

And the noise? Maybe it won't be an all the time thing but living around construction can be a pain...and if you have multiple rigs and associated activity all at once I imagine it would be formidable disruption.

I have read some folks are talking of selling their homes and moving but... who would (with a family) want to buy a house in a sub surrounded by rigs. And because of headlines there aren't many people who won't have heard that the process itself is controversial - so you'd always be wondering - who was right? What if the oil companies are wrong? What if this is harming us somehow. It would be stressful to never know for sure.

Or what about accidents like what just happened up in Wyoming? The residents were evacuated for fear of a natural gas explosion.

Residents evacuate after gas leaks from Wyo. well | nola.com

This all just seems to contradictory to the reputation Fort Collins and Loveland and the surrounding areas have earned as a great place to raise a family and to retire etc.

Ten years from now - will it have been worth it? What will the skyline look like? A sea of rigs?

Personally, I wish the people there luck. I don't envy the decisions they may have to make.
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Unread 04-26-2012, 05:16 PM
 
1,799 posts, read 2,179,660 times
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Wink Exactly so

Interesting observations, and of course true.

I can tell you for 100% fact that authorities do not respect private property in Larimer County. Not without exception perhaps, but exactly so when it comes to refusing to enforce applicable laws, such as the noise and speed laws of Colorado, which have a direct impact on the safety, livability, and real estate value of property.

Insofar as fracking is concerned, little different, only they've gone to the trouble to write applicable laws in such a way as to leave property owners without even the option of legal complaint. Although, I'm fairly sure there are environmental laws and so forth on the books which could cause them problems. Only good luck getting them enforced.

Plainly everything spoken of the potential hazards and disagreeable nature of industrial operations nearly in one's backyard (and in fact directly under it) is in no way good for any neighborhood or anyone who lives there. Moreover, in time it will surely be seen that Colorado and all other areas that are in a rush to profit from fracking are doing so to the detriment of their state, its citizens, and their environmental future.

Talk about short sighted, corrupt and venal. But they get away with this through the calculation that just one or a few rightly irate homeowners can be brushed under the rug, and unlikely the rest ever organized and determined enough to put a halt to this.

As a side note, all of Colorado has the geologic potential to be fracked, save a narrow band of the central mountains, and the far southeast corner of the state.
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Unread 04-26-2012, 10:19 PM
 
9,366 posts, read 8,565,734 times
Reputation: 6525
Quote:
Originally Posted by movingin2new View Post
I have been watching the fracking sitution in NoCo with great interest. While various parties argue whether or not fracking wells are harmful to the environment, I was thinking about the other issues. In particular, would you really want to have a bunch of those rigs surrounding your house? I was always under the impression Coloradoans were passionate about the environment, the beautiful Rocky Mountains, the fresh clean air.

I have been reading what's been going on in Windsor and it's sad. The residents are not only being told these wells are going up in their neighborhoods, they are being told by company representatives that there isn't thing one they can do about it.

I think it would be unfortunate to look out my windows - maybe even across the street like that one in Fort Collins on the playground - and see multiple rigs blocking my view of the mountains or plains.

And the increased truck traffic - diesel fuel - has to impact the air quality. Even if it doesn't cause harm - it stinks. Anyone who's been behind a diesel truck has likely experienced this stink.

And the noise? Maybe it won't be an all the time thing but living around construction can be a pain...and if you have multiple rigs and associated activity all at once I imagine it would be formidable disruption.

I have read some folks are talking of selling their homes and moving but... who would (with a family) want to buy a house in a sub surrounded by rigs. And because of headlines there aren't many people who won't have heard that the process itself is controversial - so you'd always be wondering - who was right? What if the oil companies are wrong? What if this is harming us somehow. It would be stressful to never know for sure.

Or what about accidents like what just happened up in Wyoming? The residents were evacuated for fear of a natural gas explosion.

Residents evacuate after gas leaks from Wyo. well | nola.com

This all just seems to contradictory to the reputation Fort Collins and Loveland and the surrounding areas have earned as a great place to raise a family and to retire etc.

Ten years from now - will it have been worth it? What will the skyline look like? A sea of rigs?

Personally, I wish the people there luck. I don't envy the decisions they may have to make.
I've got fracked wells all around me.

The first part is the messy and noisy part as they build the well pad, bring in the drilling rig and then frack it.

Once that is all done however, the drill rig goes away and all that is left is the well pad and well head and a few tanks. The footprint of the well pad is pretty small and doesn't impact the landscape in any big way. You would never really notice it unless you were looking for it.
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Unread 04-26-2012, 10:24 PM
 
9,366 posts, read 8,565,734 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Idunn View Post
Plainly everything spoken of the potential hazards and disagreeable nature of industrial operations nearly in one's backyard (and in fact directly under it) is in no way good for any neighborhood or anyone who lives there. Moreover, in time it will surely be seen that Colorado and all other areas that are in a rush to profit from fracking are doing so to the detriment of their state, its citizens, and their environmental future.

Talk about short sighted, corrupt and venal. But they get away with this through the calculation that just one or a few rightly irate homeowners can be brushed under the rug, and unlikely the rest ever organized and determined enough to put a halt to this.

As a side note, all of Colorado has the geologic potential to be fracked, save a narrow band of the central mountains, and the far southeast corner of the state.
There have been oil and gas wells in peoples backyards in places like Texas, Oklahoma, California, etc. for over 100 years with no ill effect. In Los Angeles there is oil wells all over the whole metro area.

People act like this is some big thing that has just happened, but it's been going on for longer anyone has been alive.
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Unread 04-26-2012, 11:03 PM
 
1,799 posts, read 2,179,660 times
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Wink Specific information

'Increasingly, landowners and residents of oil and gas field communities are reporting health impacts that they believe are linked to environmental toxics associated with the oil and gas development activities in their area.' [1]


Some of the cited ill effects from proximity to oil and gas operations are asthma, liver failure, nausea and cancer. And that is a very partial list of those listed in this referenced article. The four most common ill effects in the TEDX database are neurotoxicity; skin/organ toxicity; respiratory ailments; and gastrointestinal/liver damage.

According to this 430 million galloons of chemical-laced fluids have been injected into more than 9,000 oil and gas wells in Colorado. There are currently 35,000 active wells, with 90% of them having been fracked. At least 65 of the chemicals used in these operations are listed as hazardous under federal law.

Aside from Colorado, this reference also includes information on oil and gas operations in New Mexico, Montana and Wyoming.

Interesting reading for those so concerned. And maybe eye opening for those thinking nothing is going on.

1) 'Oil and gas industry chemicals and health,' Earthworks
EARTHWORKS | Oil and gas industry chemicals and health
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Unread 05-07-2012, 06:31 PM
 
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Wink Germany questions fracking

'Sources in the German government said that the ministers were "very skeptical" about fracking, which injects chemicals as well as sand and water into the ground to release natural gas. "There are many open questions which we will first have to carefully examine," Rösler told close associates.' [1]


Generally, governments are keen on business and enterprise, particularly when a lot of energy and money is on offer. So notable that Germany adopting a decidedly cautious approach.

In contrast, in Colorado and the greater US fracking is going like gangbusters. Brief mention in this article of the Obama administration does not fully convey what is at hand: on federal property they will require oil and gas companies to list all chemicals used—but this 'transparency' has been watered down (due lobbying and explicit complaint of oil and gas companies) to disclosure of these many toxic chemicals used AFTER introduction into the ground, not prior to. An important distinction. In whole, these new regulations actually make it easier for fracking operations to proceed.

These federal regulations applying to federal land are seen as possibly setting precedent for those that would apply across the industry on all lands, including private and state which are not currently covered by them. This has the potential to have weaker federal regulations supersede stronger individual state regulations governing this industry.

1) 'German Government to Oppose Fracking,' Der Spiegel
Germany Rejects Fracking to Tap Natural Gas - SPIEGEL ONLINE
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Unread 05-11-2012, 12:12 PM
 
85 posts, read 87,518 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wanneroo View Post
There have been oil and gas wells in peoples backyards in places like Texas, Oklahoma, California, etc. for over 100 years with no ill effect. In Los Angeles there is oil wells all over the whole metro area.

People act like this is some big thing that has just happened, but it's been going on for longer anyone has been alive.
The fracking process currently being used has not been going on for over 100 years. It's relatively new technology and it is unclear the effects. It has not been going on long enough. As for Louisiana and the other states. When my family lived in New Orleans we were constantly advised not to take showers or use the water to brush our teeth as there had been yet another spill. Have you been to Louisiana? Everywhere you go there are water refilling stations for the drinking/cooking water you have to purchase since the stuff coming from your tap is not safe. 60 Minutes did a story that year (1980 or 81) that every baby born had cancer cells in their body.

Or how about all the nut trees in Texas that are dying? Without effect? Check the facts. Plenty of ill effects. As for fracking - it's a new technology.

I'm also curious about something else. If water is such a precious resource in Colorado - why are they letting corporations pour so much of it down the proverbial drain?
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Unread 05-11-2012, 01:00 PM
 
Location: Wherabouts Unknown!
6,845 posts, read 8,372,354 times
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movingin2nwe wrote:
I'm also curious about something else. If water is such a precious resource in Colorado - why are they letting corporations pour so much of it down the proverbial drain?
In Colorado, like any where else, the corporations own the politicians, and they must do what they are told to do by their corporate owners, and public welfare be damned.
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Unread 05-11-2012, 03:21 PM
 
9,366 posts, read 8,565,734 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by movingin2new View Post
The fracking process currently being used has not been going on for over 100 years. It's relatively new technology and it is unclear the effects. It has not been going on long enough. As for Louisiana and the other states. When my family lived in New Orleans we were constantly advised not to take showers or use the water to brush our teeth as there had been yet another spill. Have you been to Louisiana? Everywhere you go there are water refilling stations for the drinking/cooking water you have to purchase since the stuff coming from your tap is not safe. 60 Minutes did a story that year (1980 or 81) that every baby born had cancer cells in their body.

Or how about all the nut trees in Texas that are dying? Without effect? Check the facts. Plenty of ill effects. As for fracking - it's a new technology.

I'm also curious about something else. If water is such a precious resource in Colorado - why are they letting corporations pour so much of it down the proverbial drain?
It is not "relatively new" technology, fracking has been around for 70 years.

Around here any spills that do happen get cleaned up and the dirt removed and processed. They have company safety people everywhere along with state inspectors.

Trees dying in Texas because of fracking? What does fracking have to do with trees dying? Trees have always died in Texas. This kind of stuff is like Area 51 mythology with no basis in reality. Fracking will be used as a peg board for every ailment and issue.
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Unread 05-11-2012, 05:52 PM
 
1,799 posts, read 2,179,660 times
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Wink Pecan trees & cows

Thousands of Texas pecan trees have died. As have elms, willows and oaks. However growers believe this due the sulfur dioxide emissions from coal-fired power plants. At issue is one power plant in central Texas in operation since 1979, so presumably enough time to well document what is transpiring.

Another factor is our changing climate. According to the Texas Forest Service as many as 500 million trees in the state—about 10% of their forest—have been killed due the severe drought of 2011. Presumably orchard trees have better access to water, but this surely didn't help.

So at the moment I cannot pin the untimely death of pecan trees on fracking. But it can kill your cow. Or goat, horse, llama, chicken, fish, cat, dog—or you.

According to professor Robert Oswald of Cornell's College of Veterinary Medicine, animals in six states studied, including Colorado, had potentially negative effects from fracking: such as reproductive issues, illness and death.[1]

In Louisiana, 17 cows died within an hour after direct exposure to fracking fluids. Another farmer reported 70 of his 140 cows so exposed died—after oil and gas workers allegedly slit the liner of the holding pond to release the toxic effluent, so less to deal with.

Which raises another interesting point. Those engaged in fracking have claimed it can be safely done—if conducted in a proper manner. But guess what—it often isn't—and your government is in no big hurry to rectify that. They will not even mandate transparency in revealing what is being pumped into your air, soil and water. Or, you.

As animals so exposed to these chemicals—but not dead—are not tested prior to slaughter for that consumed. So little idea what hydrofracking chemicals are being consumed in meat and dairy products.

So you can have a cow about a lot more than pecan trees.

1) 'Fracking may be killing farm animals?,' Western Farm Press
Fracking may be killing farm animals? | Management content from Western Farm Press
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