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Old 10-22-2012, 09:05 AM
 
Location: Colorado Springs, CO
2,221 posts, read 5,245,953 times
Reputation: 1703

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Quote:
Originally Posted by gemstone1 View Post
"There are now very roughly 45,000 fracking wells in Colorado"......

Great, that means that roughly 315,000,000,000 gallons of precious water that have been used in the development of those wells. In a state where every drop of water is accounted for, where is this water coming from, at what expense ?

These "constituents" (or ingredients) are added to the fracking fluids used in each well bore, many are listed as hazardous:

Fracking fluid ingredients

Looks like a recipe for disaster to me.

Regards
Gemstone1
I note with amusement that if you click on the fluids disclosure link, click on Colorado, and then page down to the constituent fluids list, that many of those awful fluids listed as "hazardous" are commonly used in food, cat litter, mouthwash, soaps, fertilizer, insecticide etc. So we'll use the stuff all around the house, and even ingest it, but pumping it thousands of feet down into the ground is SO SCARY!
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Old 10-22-2012, 12:01 PM
 
9,846 posts, read 22,575,838 times
Reputation: 7737
Quote:
Originally Posted by wyolady View Post
I know you may find this all very funny because it's not in YOUR back yard, but people in Western Wyoming who live in a community harmed by fracking chemicals have a MUCH higher incidence of cancers....we'll probably discover a connection in like 50 years after everyone affected is dead. One of them is a friend of mine. About 25 of his immediate and extended family lives near fracking activity. 9 of them have developed cancer in the last 5 years (36% rate, higher than average), 6 of them under the age of 40.

Erin Brockovich, where are you when we need you?
It is in my backyard. I have wells all around me and there is one down the street. You wouldn't know it's there unless I told you though. I live in Tioga County, PA, home of the Marcellus Shale.

I would be more worried about all of the chemicals in processed food you eat.

My question would be how exactly does fracking give you cancer? How do you come in contact with fracking chemicals?

The fact is in the fracking explosion most of the chemicals(which are a small part of the overall package) are consumed and destroyed 8000 ft underground.

Now I would imagine if you filled Mason jars with the stuff like moonshine and drank it or snorted it, you'd get ill, but trace amounts most likely you would never come in contact with.

Not only do we have the government testing the local water, but we have a private group of people who have been doing testing of local rivers and streams on their own dime and have found nothing. And that is because these well pads are tightly controlled sites.

Again the common theme is if you don't agree with the radical agenda of the regressives where fracking causes everything from male pattern baldness to earthquakes to cancer to a drop in sexual performance to global warming, even if there is no causal link to fracking, somehow you want to live in a dirty place and that just isn't the case.

I want it to be as clean as possible and keep my eyes and ears out there to stay informed.
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Old 10-22-2012, 12:11 PM
 
9,846 posts, read 22,575,838 times
Reputation: 7737
Quote:
Originally Posted by gemstone1 View Post
"There are now very roughly 45,000 fracking wells in Colorado"......

Great, that means that roughly 315,000,000,000 gallons of precious water that have been used in the development of those wells. In a state where every drop of water is accounted for, where is this water coming from, at what expense ?

These "constituents" (or ingredients) are added to the fracking fluids used in each well bore, many are listed as hazardous:

Fracking fluid ingredients

Looks like a recipe for disaster to me.

Regards
Gemstone1
I guess you haven't gotten the memo. Water is rapidly falling out of favor due to finding a source for it, transporting it, recycling it and so on. Propane gels and nitrogen are techniques that are rapidly being used instead as they can be captured and reused easily. Talking to people in the industry and doing my own research, fracking technology develops weekly and monthly to make the whole process much more efficient.

It's no more dirty and in many respects, cleaner than your average oil well.
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Old 10-22-2012, 12:18 PM
 
9,846 posts, read 22,575,838 times
Reputation: 7737
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob from down south View Post
I note with amusement that if you click on the fluids disclosure link, click on Colorado, and then page down to the constituent fluids list, that many of those awful fluids listed as "hazardous" are commonly used in food, cat litter, mouthwash, soaps, fertilizer, insecticide etc. So we'll use the stuff all around the house, and even ingest it, but pumping it thousands of feet down into the ground is SO SCARY!
These fluids also are just a small part of the overall amount that gets send into the ground and are designed to assist in the explosion and are mostly consumed by it.

In the meantime these terrified people want electric cars that have hundreds of pounds of batteries filled with caustic chemicals and rare earths that necessitate intensive mining to get all of what is required to make these batteries.
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Old 10-22-2012, 12:50 PM
 
Location: Wherabouts Unknown!
7,841 posts, read 18,925,448 times
Reputation: 9579
wanneroo wrote: In the meantime these terrified people want electric cars that have hundreds of pounds of batteries filled with caustic chemicals and rare earths that necessitate intensive mining to get all of what is required to make these batteries.

Just wondering...who are these terrified people, and when did they appoint you as their spokesperson?


wanneroo wrote: I would be more worried about all of the chemicals in processed food you eat.

Hopefully you are too. Avoidiing foods containing these chemicals is likely to keep you healthier, perhaps lowering health care costs. Personally, I don't waste time worrying about it, but I am concerned about it, and I make an effort to eat mostly organically grown food that is as local as possible.

Last edited by CosmicWizard; 10-22-2012 at 01:03 PM..
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Old 10-22-2012, 06:37 PM
 
2,253 posts, read 6,957,630 times
Reputation: 2653
Wink Toxic chemicals & amount water used

By law oil companies are not required to disclose the chemicals used in fracking, generally refusing to publicly do so, terming the concoctions used trade secrets.

Since one of our posters was kind enough to provide a link[1] of hydraulic fracturing fluids that Halliburton has disclosed, a brief overview of but three, being just some of the chemicals this industry is pumping into the ground largely without oversight or restriction.

BA-40L
This is apparently a type of barium. Due its high chemical reactivity barium is never present in nature as a free element; it must be manufactured by mankind. Soluble barium is poisonous, and used in such as rodenticides (rat poison).[2]

CL-23
CL-23 would seem to be very similar to CL-20, being a polycyclic nitramine. It is an explosive. A substance toxic to earthworms and similar forms of life.[3]

GasPerm 1100
Manufactured by Halliburton, GasPerm 1100 is highly flammable. If inhaled it will likely cause respiratory irritation, as well as depression and fatigue. If inadvertent skin contact, then possible skin irritation or allergic skin reaction. Eye contact will probably result in moderate to severe eye irritation. Ingestion could lead to vomiting, nausea, diarrhea, difficulty breathing, coughing up blood, pneumonia, and possibly fatal.[4]

The amount of water used for fracking—with attendant chemicals—varies depending on underlying geology. In Pennsylvania, a single fracking well can use 4.5 million gallons. In Texas that figure is 6 million gallons. Whereas in California the figure might be as low as 164,000 gallons.[5] In Colorado the average fracking well typically requires about 1,000,000 gallons, if a vertical well; if a horizontal well, it can require 5,000,000 gallons.[6] Many fracking wells are horizontal, this being touted as one of the great advantages of this technology.


1) 'Fluids Disclosure,' Halliburton
Halliburton - Fluids Disclosure

2) 'Barium,' Wikipedia
Barium - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

3) 'Acute and chronic toxicity of the new explosive CL-20 to the earthworm (Eisenia Andrei) exposed to amended natural soils,' NCBI
Acute and chronic toxicity of the new e... [Environ Toxicol Chem. 2004] - PubMed - NCBI

4) 'Material Safety Data: GasPerm 1100,' Halliburton
http://www.santos.com/library/Hallib...sPerm_1100.pdf

5) 'Fracking in California takes less water,' San Francisco Chronicle
Fracking in California takes less water - SFGate

6) 'Report: Volume of water used for fracking in Colorado could serve 79,000 households a year,' Boulder Daily Camera
Report: Volume of water used for fracking in Colorado could serve 79,000 households a year - Boulder Daily Camera
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Old 10-22-2012, 11:13 PM
 
Location: Sun City West, Arizona
50,119 posts, read 23,785,288 times
Reputation: 32519
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob from down south View Post
I note with amusement that if you click on the fluids disclosure link, click on Colorado, and then page down to the constituent fluids list, that many of those awful fluids listed as "hazardous" are commonly used in food, cat litter, mouthwash, soaps, fertilizer, insecticide etc. So we'll use the stuff all around the house, and even ingest it, but pumping it thousands of feet down into the ground is SO SCARY!
While I don't agree with your implied conclusion (that fracking is okay), I do agree with the basic point you are making...for the first time in 2 years!

My conclusion based on your statement is that we need to clean up many of the products used in the home. Perhaps the best example being dangerous plastics used in food storage.
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Old 10-23-2012, 12:25 AM
 
9,846 posts, read 22,575,838 times
Reputation: 7737
Quote:
Originally Posted by phetaroi View Post
While I don't agree with your implied conclusion (that fracking is okay), I do agree with the basic point you are making...for the first time in 2 years!

My conclusion based on your statement is that we need to clean up many of the products used in the home. Perhaps the best example being dangerous plastics used in food storage.
I think the point Bob is making is that people are not using some proportionate common sense in regards to all of this. There is no doubt if you take these fracking chemicals and take a bath in them or drink a Mason jar of, it's not going to turn out well for you. But these chemicals are being used in a diluted form 2 miles down underground and are mostly consumed in the explosion. These chemicals are also being used in a controlled industrial process with oversight, no different than a million other industrial processes happening out there, solar panels being a great example.

It's interesting to me some of the anti fracking crowd are pro cannabis. They fear a few gallons of chemicals 2 miles below them separated by many layers of solid rock, yet are for inhaling a heavy carcinogen that does permanent damage and illness to the body. It doesn't really make sense, but then if you are smoking cannabis, logic is probably not a strong suit.
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Old 10-23-2012, 08:41 AM
 
Location: Boydton, VA
4,521 posts, read 6,211,640 times
Reputation: 10395
"These chemicals are also being used in a controlled industrial process with oversight..."

Great, so the industry won't have any problem being included, not exempted from this oversight (SDWA) ?

Safe Drinking Water
Act


A quote from the above SDWA.

"Congress amended the SDWA in 2005 to exclude hydraulic fracturing, an industrial process for recovering oil and natural gas, from coverage under the UIC program.[16][17] This exclusion has been called the "Halliburton Loophole" after the company formerly led by former vice-president Richard Cheney. Halliburton is the world's largest provider of hydraulic fracturing services".

Regards
Gemstone1
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Old 10-23-2012, 11:26 AM
 
Location: Wherabouts Unknown!
7,841 posts, read 18,925,448 times
Reputation: 9579
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