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Old 08-23-2013, 02:04 AM
 
Location: CO/UT/AZ/NM Catch me if you can!
5,824 posts, read 5,208,104 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wanneroo View Post
Who the hell gave them that power?
The people, perhaps?
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Old 08-23-2013, 11:35 AM
 
9,840 posts, read 20,492,992 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Colorado Rambler View Post
The people, perhaps?
No, when we vote for people for public office their role is not to be authoritarians about every aspect of our lives and the commerce we involve ourselves in. Where this idea came from that because people are voted into a public office they are now these all insightful wizards that can pass down dictatorial majesty at their whim I have no idea. I think it might be people that look to government as the God they worship and that lack self esteem and their own belief that the individual can make decisions for himself about what to eat today, what commerce to engage in and where to go.

These people work for us, we don't work for them.
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Old 08-23-2013, 11:52 AM
 
Location: Bend, OR
3,296 posts, read 8,860,420 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wanneroo View Post
No, when we vote for people for public office their role is not to be authoritarians about every aspect of our lives and the commerce we involve ourselves in. Where this idea came from that because people are voted into a public office they are now these all insightful wizards that can pass down dictatorial majesty at their whim I have no idea. I think it might be people that look to government as the God they worship and that lack self esteem and their own belief that the individual can make decisions for himself about what to eat today, what commerce to engage in and where to go.

These people work for us, we don't work for them.
Oh, but this logic is flawed. I am entirely capable of making my own decisions about what to eat, etc. However, when commerce trumps my right to eat healthy food and drink uncontaminated water, well that's when our government needs to get involved!

I know you don't seem to believe that fracking or any other resource extraction has consequences on our environment despite the links I provided earlier in this thread. This is why people are banding together to try and pass legislation banning these practices near their homes.
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Old 08-23-2013, 06:49 PM
 
Location: Wherabouts Unknown!
7,794 posts, read 17,551,828 times
Reputation: 9424
Yes we can......BAN FRACKING

"From California, to Colorado, Pennsylvania to New York, and everywhere in between, the public understands that fracking poses an immediate threat to our water, air, health and climate, and they’re fighting back. President Obama needs to stop listening to the oil and gas industry and instead listen to the people who elected him."
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Old 08-24-2013, 04:27 AM
 
Location: CO/UT/AZ/NM Catch me if you can!
5,824 posts, read 5,208,104 times
Reputation: 12744
Quote:
Originally Posted by wanneroo View Post
No, when we vote for people for public office their role is not to be authoritarians about every aspect of our lives and the commerce we involve ourselves in. Where this idea came from that because people are voted into a public office they are now these all insightful wizards that can pass down dictatorial majesty at their whim I have no idea. I think it might be people that look to government as the God they worship and that lack self esteem and their own belief that the individual can make decisions for himself about what to eat today, what commerce to engage in and where to go.

These people work for us, we don't work for them.

HELLO!

I WAS REFERRING TO THE PEOPLE, AS IN "WE, THE PEOPLE," AS IN THE VOTERS!

Just like every other tea party memeber on the CD forums, your finger lacks the ability to click your mouse on the link I provided above. Even if you are managing the ever so intricate task of point and click with your mouse; then you lack the ability to read so much as the simplest of sentences. Let's check your reading compehension right now, shall we?

LOOK! LOOK! SEE JANE RUN! LOOK! SEE SPOT! LOOK! LOOK! SEE SPOT AND JANE RUN!

Take all the time you need. Move your lips if you want. Sound out the syllables. Don't worry. We here at the CD forums only want to help you. Come back in a day or two and try to read the above again. No hurry. When you are ready, please answer the following question:

WHY DOES SOMEONE WHO NEVER MADE IT BEYOND A FIRST GRADE READING LEVEL THINK EVERYONE ELSE WILL RESPECT HIS COMMENTS?

Please go play with Spot and stop bothering the adults with your clingy demands for attention.

Thank you.
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Old 08-24-2013, 12:08 PM
 
9,840 posts, read 20,492,992 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by delta07 View Post
Oh, but this logic is flawed. I am entirely capable of making my own decisions about what to eat, etc. However, when commerce trumps my right to eat healthy food and drink uncontaminated water, well that's when our government needs to get involved!

I know you don't seem to believe that fracking or any other resource extraction has consequences on our environment despite the links I provided earlier in this thread. This is why people are banding together to try and pass legislation banning these practices near their homes.
Sure provided that is actually proven and documented rather than it being Area 51 type aliens in the sky.

Around where I live with the few spills that have happened it has involved a few thousand gallons and in each case the whole site was remediated and cleaned and all offending contamination removed.

We've had eco warriors here looking for water contamination in all our streams and creeks and despite tons of water testing and testing of well water, no one has had any issues.

As long as fracking is done right and the well sites properly prepared there are no real issues. Gas wells are actually small and not noticeable once they are done.

I'm very much for clean air and water, but I also exist in reality and not in tripe regurgitated from left wing newspapers like the Guardian. I do not believe this process is any dirtier than nuclear energy, oil wells, coal mines, wood, solar and wind(which use a lot of harsh rare earth minerals, which of course have to be mined).

So if we do not obtain this energy then where does it come from and how?

As an example, New Zealand hails itself as clean and green, against nuclear power, fracking and all the rest. So in winter many people heat their homes with these wood burners and often the air is so thick with particulate contamination and it's like a London Fog of smoke you gag on. Horrible. Yet natural gas is some sort of evil.

Those of you against natural gas do me a favor and live by what you preach. Turn off anything in your home you use natural gas for.
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Old 08-24-2013, 12:12 PM
 
Location: Bend, OR
3,296 posts, read 8,860,420 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wanneroo View Post
Sure provided that is actually proven and documented rather than it being Area 51 type aliens in the sky.

Around where I live with the few spills that have happened it has involved a few thousand gallons and in each case the whole site was remediated and cleaned and all offending contamination removed.

We've had eco warriors here looking for water contamination in all our streams and creeks and despite tons of water testing and testing of well water, no one has had any issues.

As long as fracking is done right and the well sites properly prepared there are no real issues. Gas wells are actually small and not noticeable once they are done.

I'm very much for clean air and water, but I also exist in reality and not in tripe regurgitated from left wing newspapers like the Guardian. I do not believe this process is any dirtier than nuclear energy, oil wells, coal mines, wood, solar and wind(which use a lot of harsh rare earth minerals, which of course have to be mined).

So if we do not obtain this energy then where does it come from and how?

As an example, New Zealand hails itself as clean and green, against nuclear power, fracking and all the rest. So in winter many people heat their homes with these wood burners and often the air is so thick with particulate contamination and it's like a London Fog of smoke you gag on. Horrible. Yet natural gas is some sort of evil.

Those of you against natural gas do me a favor and live by what you preach. Turn off anything in your home you use natural gas for.
I don't have gas in my home at all. Look, I understand what you are saying in some regards. We still need energy. I get that. I just don't believe fracking is the way to do it.
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Old 08-24-2013, 12:15 PM
 
9,840 posts, read 20,492,992 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CosmicWizard View Post
Yes we can......BAN FRACKING

"From California, to Colorado, Pennsylvania to New York, and everywhere in between, the public understands that fracking poses an immediate threat to our water, air, health and climate, and they’re fighting back. President Obama needs to stop listening to the oil and gas industry and instead listen to the people who elected him."
"Progressive" is simply the progressive march towards marxism or any variation there of.

Last I checked President obama was not a dictator who could wave a pen and ban anything he wants. I think some of these people forgot we have something called the Constitution which stands in between people like these totalitarian nuts and our freedom.

It's an immediate threat to what?

These people other than very isolated instances of issues have yet to prove this widespread contamination of anything.

I firmly believe these people, obama included, support the 3rd worlding of the USA and it's de-industrialization of it's society.
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Old 08-24-2013, 12:29 PM
 
9,840 posts, read 20,492,992 times
Reputation: 7667
Quote:
Originally Posted by delta07 View Post
I don't have gas in my home at all. Look, I understand what you are saying in some regards. We still need energy. I get that. I just don't believe fracking is the way to do it.
Then out of what magic hat does it come from?

Wind and solar require the mining of a lot of harsh rare earths and other minerals to make their equipment and because the wind doesn't blow all the time and the sun doesn't shine all the time either, all that is merely a supplement and an expensive one at that.

The eco nuts have totally stopped any new nuclear power plant construction for over 30 years.

Coal does a great job of producing electricity but it's in the cross hairs of the obama administration as this great evil to mankind.

Wood is not realistic.

We've been told for 40 years that we need to end our foreign dependence on oil and gas. Now we are doing so, creating American jobs and stimulating the economy and that is labeled as evil too.

So what is it going to be?

What I want to hear is what is the alternative right here and right now. Not in 2050 when we have Mr. Fusion on the back of our DeLorean, but right here and right now.

I tap into a lot of local resources and information on fracking. The lengths these companies have to go to "to protect the environment" are insane and over the top. Fracking technology is moving fast and they have developed a lot of alternatives that don't require much water or any water at all as well as "safe" chemicals. They have 3D seismic surveys and computer modeling and have gotten to the point they can drill to within a foot of accuracy. The technology has also gotten better to where they can use one well pad and go out for a long distance in many directions.

I think what I am finding is that many are just uninformed people that regurgitate garbage from hysterical "progressive" websites and left wing newspapers and they would not even know what a natural gas well site looks like, much less what is involved or anything else about it.
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Old 08-24-2013, 12:31 PM
 
Location: Wherabouts Unknown!
7,794 posts, read 17,551,828 times
Reputation: 9424
wanneroo wrote: The eco nuts have totally stopped any new nuclear power plant construction for over 30 years.

A victory of sorts IMO. I tip my hat to the eco nuts!


wanneroo wrote: "safe" chemicals

Those two words hardly belong together when describing the chemical concoctions of the chemical companies, which is likely what you were referring to.
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