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Old 02-25-2014, 09:47 PM
 
Location: Wherabouts Unknown!
7,778 posts, read 17,467,030 times
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wanerro wrote: I live around a bazillion fracked wells and if anything our air quality is better. Now like any new construction, yes when they build a well and frack it, lots of traffic, lots of stirred up dirt, but once done the wells themselves are hardly noticeable. As far as any mining operation goes, for the benefit from each well, the impact is minimal.

The only place to find a Whopper bigger than this is at Burger King!

Last edited by CosmicWizard; 02-25-2014 at 10:44 PM..
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Old 02-26-2014, 10:57 AM
 
9,840 posts, read 20,355,656 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CosmicWizard View Post
wanerro wrote: I live around a bazillion fracked wells and if anything our air quality is better. Now like any new construction, yes when they build a well and frack it, lots of traffic, lots of stirred up dirt, but once done the wells themselves are hardly noticeable. As far as any mining operation goes, for the benefit from each well, the impact is minimal.

The only place to find a Whopper bigger than this is at Burger King!
Well tell me how exactly it is not what I said rather than making Whopper jokes. I'm all ears.

The impact once a well is done is minimal compared to any other mining operation. Most people have no idea what a natural gas well looks like or would even notice it.
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Old 02-26-2014, 11:48 AM
 
2,253 posts, read 6,318,539 times
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Wink Certain swindles

Quote:
Originally Posted by wanneroo View Post
... I live around a bazillion fracked wells and if anything our air quality is better. Now like any new construction, yes when they build a well and frack it, lots of traffic, lots of stirred up dirt, but once done the wells themselves are hardly noticeable. As far as any mining operation goes, for the benefit from each well, the impact is minimal.

It would be interesting to learn how an oil installation manages to purify and actually improve an areas air quality. As for the gas flaring I described it existed at the time, and surely does now. Those installations were not under construction but already long since in place, and in operation. There is no way in the world that THAT improves air quality. And, yes, I was there in person.

Unfortunately, discerning the truth of things is not always simple. Made all the more difficult when those who would know seek to obfuscate and have as much non-transparency as possible, if not perpetrating outright lies in costly commercials—all of which being a clue in themselves. But one does what they can. No source is entirely objective, if some certainly by design more so than others. One must look at everything, and then discern what they can—watching their own biases in the process. Yet even that imperfect can lead in some part to a broader and better understanding. And, as well, a beginning point for another interested to learn what they might.

BTW, RT is an abbreviation for the publication formally known as Russia Today. While a mistake to think they, as most other media, do not have ulterior motives, they still provide mention of more than a few things that mainstream US media studiously ignore. One might at times question the angle taken, but the facts presented are more often just that: facts.
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Old 02-26-2014, 12:13 PM
 
9,840 posts, read 20,355,656 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Idunn View Post
It would be interesting to learn how an oil installation manages to purify and actually improve an areas air quality. As for the gas flaring I described it existed at the time, and surely does now. Those installations were not under construction but already long since in place, and in operation. There is no way in the world that THAT improves air quality. And, yes, I was there in person.

Unfortunately, discerning the truth of things is not always simple. Made all the more difficult when those who would know seek to obfuscate and have as much non-transparency as possible, if not perpetrating outright lies in costly commercials—all of which being a clue in themselves. But one does what they can. No source is entirely objective, if some certainly by design more so than others. One must look at everything, and then discern what they can—watching their own biases in the process. Yet even that imperfect can lead in some part to a broader and better understanding. And, as well, a beginning point for another interested to learn what they might.

BTW, RT is an abbreviation for the publication formally known as Russia Today. While a mistake to think they, as most other media, do not have ulterior motives, they still provide mention of more than a few things that mainstream US media studiously ignore. One might at times question the angle taken, but the facts presented are more often just that: facts.
I never stated gas wells purify air, that's not their purpose, but nor do they pollute either. Mother Earth vents all sorts of gasses everywhere and all day and a gas well is nothing in comparison. For all this talk of horrendous air quality it hasn't happened here and we have wells everywhere. I haven't seen it change in Colorado either.

As I have pointed out when they construct a well and put in pipeline, like any construction, there is dust and there is traffic and it can be a PITA, but once done a well pad lasts for decades and takes up minimal space. They have even constructed a pipeline factory 15 miles away so they do not have to import pipeline here and all the pipeline they have installed has cut traffic down to nothing.

RT has no interest in furthering the success or cause of the USA, especially when it comes to natural gas and oil, so they will never put anything out there positive and I would take their "facts" with a grain of salt.
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Old 02-26-2014, 01:50 PM
 
2,253 posts, read 6,318,539 times
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Wink Not insubstancial

'They look harmless as you drive by just like the other stationary equipment you see on well pads. Without an infrared camera, as in this case, that picks up the plume of the highly active volatile chemicals escaping from the tanks, no one would suspect that the tanks could possibly pose a public health problem.' [1]



While true that the installation of oil wells will result in a fair degree of air pollution, existing in place wells can and do pollute the air as well.

Among other instances, if a glycol dehydrator is used not insignificant amounts of organic chemicals can be released. I believe those would be the same as can be captured in condensate tanks, and toluene, exlene, ethlbenzene and benzene. Benzene alone has mandated OSHA exposure levels (1ppm in 8 hours), above which, at 150ppm, those exposed can suffer serious and irreversible negative health effects.

Unintended venting of gas into the atmosphere is another source of pollution. And this doesn't even cover fugitive emissions, let alone that entirely obvious in flaring.

While an in place oil well takes up relatively little space, its impacts to the region are far larger. This aside from any environmental degradation to land, air and water. The majority of associated truck traffic is during installation, and this alone a not insubstantial imposition. Particularly with fracking, there is a vast amount of truck traffic with its attendant noise and pollution. If far less once a well is in place, there is still the need of servicing. The degree of this would depend on whether the individual well is connected to a pipeline network or not. Moreover the public bears the costs of this private profit in part due substantial damage done to roads used by this fleet of heavy trucks, in necessary repair.
"A typical Bakken horizontal well in western North Dakota requires 3 million gallons of freshwater and 4 million pounds of sand, in addition to the pipe, supplies, drilling mud, fracturing tanks and drilling equipment needed for fracturing and production. These inputs represent roughly 1,100 inbound loaded truck trips per well. Moreover, once drilling is complete and production begins, crude oil and waste water must be transport from the well site by truck or pipeline.

Depending on local oil development patterns, pipeline access may be sporadic. Thus, outputs are often transported by truck during the first few years of production, creating intense near-term highway demands, followed by a potential leveling of roadway traffic in the future when small diameter pipelines are built to the most productive well sites." [2]
Anyone so interested might take a drive around rural Weld County. The number of in place oil installations will quickly become apparent. There are not just a handful. Multiply that by the servicing needs and seen that oil production does not exist in a vacuum, it has a real impact on every household in the greater neighborhood, whether they personally have oil wells on their property or not.

Another place to observe such effects are in northwest New Mexico and the greater region, including Colorado. There has been intensive oil development there for many years. It is a common sight on the highways to see oil service trucks, distinctive most often in white with attached high aerials. Perhaps so they can be easily seen when out in the country, for that entire region is laced with dirt access roads, principally towards the servicing of oil wells. And these pickups and other trucks are all over the place.

As far as 'facts' and knowledge in general are concerned, an entirely individual exercise. Mark Twain may have said it best:

"I would rather have my ignorance than another man's knowledge, because I have so much more of it."
— Letter to W.D. Howells, 2/10/1875




1) 'Sources of Oil and Gas Air Pollution,' EarthWorks
EARTHWORKS | Sources of Oil and Gas Air Pollution

2) 'Impacts to Montana State Highways Due to Bakken Oil Development,' Montana Department of Transportation
http://www.mdt.mt.gov/other/research...m/proposal.pdf
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Old 02-26-2014, 07:01 PM
 
9,840 posts, read 20,355,656 times
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I don't understand what your point is? There are trucks on the road. Big deal. There are trucks on the road for everything else we do as a society. The medieval lefties always talk about "impact". The earth always changes and always will, whether we are here or not. Anything any creature does on the planet is an "impact".

Fracking technology has developed over time. They can drill out many times the distance they once did, requiring less wells and in addition often connect these up to pipeline before hand.
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Old 02-27-2014, 10:57 AM
 
22,720 posts, read 41,595,372 times
Reputation: 22884
As much as I like the prospect of the USA being energy independent, here is sobering info to cast a wet blanket over those cozy dreams:

Excerpt: "The path toward U.S. energy independence, made possible by a boom in shale oil, will be much harder than it seems. Just a few of the roadblocks: Independent producers will spend $1.50 drilling this year for every dollar they get back. Shale output drops faster than production from conventional methods. It will take 2,500 new wells a year just to sustain output of 1 million barrels a day in North Dakota’s Bakken shale, according to the Paris-based International Energy Agency. Iraq could do the same with 60. Consider Sanchez Energy Corp. The Houston-based company plans to spend as much as $600 million this year, almost double its estimated 2013 revenue, on the Eagle Ford shale formation in south Texas, which along with North Dakota is one of the hotbeds of a drilling frenzy that’s pushed U.S. crude output to the highest in almost 26 years. Its Sante North 1H oil well pumped five times more water than crude, ... "
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Old 03-07-2014, 04:50 PM
 
2,253 posts, read 6,318,539 times
Reputation: 2632
Wink All the higher price paid

'The move to consider reversing Russian gas flows comes amid growing pressure in Washington to exploit the huge boom in US gas – extracted through fracking technologies – to begin global exports, providing a counter-weight to Moscow’s influence.' [1]



For anyone less than happy about fracking in Colorado but taking some solace in it improving our energy supplies, this may come as unwelcome news.

The Bush administration invaded Iraq—at the direct cost of many hundreds of thousands of Iraqi lives, as well over 4,000 American—for oil. Mister darkness himself, Dick Cheney, was prescient and ruthless enough to see that with Peak Oil this will become an increasingly valuable and limited resource. That the Middle East remains the largest source of readily acquired oil, with Iraq sitting on one of the largest reserves in the world. He and his ilk wanted to gain control of and exploit this resource of another country by privatizing it and dramatically increasing output. Neither of which being in the interests of the Iraqi people, despite US claims to the contrary. So they just trumped up a war, lied wholesale to Congress, the American people and world, and had their way. Now Iraqi oil is in effect controlled by all the major international oil corporations.

The line that all the negatives associated with fracking are somehow worth it for US energy security are just as specious. This is a global market with this resource going to the highest bidder. These are boom times in Williston, ND, for all the many problems this is causing the community and region now and possibly all the more so in future. But the money made by oil field hands, waitresses and prostitutes is chump change in comparison to the vast financial riches which inevitably flow but to a relative corporate few. As well greasing the palms of more than a few politicians.

As this article highlights, another advantage not seen by us is the leverage this gives Washington in its games of real politik. The fracked oil and gas of America and Colorado will not only flow into the pockets of corporate interests, but willfully exported for a variety of gambits.

Nothing but a bad joke that the benefits will accrue to those having suffered the process. The prices we pay for this resource, thus higher in consequence, will reflect this.



1) 'EU leaders draw up plans to send gas to Ukraine if Russia cuts off supply,' The Guardian
EU leaders draw up plans to send gas to Ukraine if Russia cuts off supply | Business | theguardian.com
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Old 03-07-2014, 09:05 PM
 
Location: Wherabouts Unknown!
7,778 posts, read 17,467,030 times
Reputation: 9363
Idunn wrote: But the money made by oil field hands, waitresses and prostitutes is chump change in comparison to the vast financial riches which inevitably flow but to a relative corporate few. As well greasing the palms of more than a few politicians.

The way of the world....a few billionaires rake it in and and everyone else gets screwed, as the environment gets raped in the process.
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Old 03-08-2014, 08:20 AM
 
1,517 posts, read 1,077,776 times
Reputation: 1847
Quote:
Originally Posted by Idunn View Post
'The move to consider reversing Russian gas flows comes amid growing pressure in Washington to exploit the huge boom in US gas – extracted through fracking technologies – to begin global exports, providing a counter-weight to Moscow’s influence.' [1]



For anyone less than happy about fracking in Colorado but taking some solace in it improving our energy supplies, this may come as unwelcome news.

The Bush administration invaded Iraq—at the direct cost of many hundreds of thousands of Iraqi lives, as well over 4,000 American—for oil. Mister darkness himself, Dick Cheney, was prescient and ruthless enough to see that with Peak Oil this will become an increasingly valuable and limited resource. That the Middle East remains the largest source of readily acquired oil, with Iraq sitting on one of the largest reserves in the world. He and his ilk wanted to gain control of and exploit this resource of another country by privatizing it and dramatically increasing output. Neither of which being in the interests of the Iraqi people, despite US claims to the contrary. So they just trumped up a war, lied wholesale to Congress, the American people and world, and had their way. Now Iraqi oil is in effect controlled by all the major international oil corporations.

The line that all the negatives associated with fracking are somehow worth it for US energy security are just as specious. This is a global market with this resource going to the highest bidder. These are boom times in Williston, ND, for all the many problems this is causing the community and region now and possibly all the more so in future. But the money made by oil field hands, waitresses and prostitutes is chump change in comparison to the vast financial riches which inevitably flow but to a relative corporate few. As well greasing the palms of more than a few politicians.

As this article highlights, another advantage not seen by us is the leverage this gives Washington in its games of real politik. The fracked oil and gas of America and Colorado will not only flow into the pockets of corporate interests, but willfully exported for a variety of gambits.

Nothing but a bad joke that the benefits will accrue to those having suffered the process. The prices we pay for this resource, thus higher in consequence, will reflect this.


1) 'EU leaders draw up plans to send gas to Ukraine if Russia cuts off supply,' The Guardian
EU leaders draw up plans to send gas to Ukraine if Russia cuts off supply | Business | theguardian.com

How exactly did the Bush adm invade for oil? Prove it? There are 0 US forces there, Iraq has complete control over the reserves, the US never controlled any of them nor did they ever control their production. While true a destabilized Persian Gulf region would have global economic impact, there has never been any proof that we invaded for oil. If anything Iran has more influence over Iraq today than the US. Iraq is begging for the US to come back. And as much fun as it is to make Bush and Cheney the dark forces of the world, a democratic congress and senate voted for the war as well as a UN resolution. Even the golden boy Clinton of democrats Clinton used UN action to strike targets against Iraq and threaten invasion. Clinton and Kerry both voted for action against Iraq.
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