U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > Colorado
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Closed Thread Start New Thread
 
Old 02-03-2008, 10:30 AM
 
8,317 posts, read 25,170,257 times
Reputation: 9066

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by formercalifornian View Post
That's a fascinating attempt at deflection. I've held up a mirror, and now the conversation is no longer worth having? I suspect I've hit a nerve. It's unusual that you turn away from a rousing debate.
No, I just do have to sleep sometimes. I think it is probably abundantly clear to most who is playing which part in my analogy. Suffice it to say that two are sellers and one is the buyer. I'll leave it at that, and not pursue the point farther and risk the wrath of the moderator, who I wouldn't blame a bit for closing this thread.

 
Old 02-03-2008, 10:39 AM
 
Location: Bend, OR
3,296 posts, read 8,222,237 times
Reputation: 3316
Quote:
Originally Posted by Charles View Post

Are we running out of agricultural and grazing land? Or, did we replace less than one percent of agricultural and grazing land with sprawl? The footprint of Denver may be 500% percent bigger now than 80 years ago, but has the amount of ranch and farm space in the country changed much as a percentage? (With modern farm equipment, farmers may be getting more crop per acre and perhaps more crops with less land too.)
We may not be running out of agricultural and grazing land worldwide, but in the US it seems to be on the steady decline. Here is a statistic about the amount of food imported into the US. "It is estimated that approximately 15 percent of the U.S. food supply is imported, but for some products such as fresh fruits, imports account for 50 to 60 percent of the supply." You can check out the website I obtained it from.

Statement on the Food and Drug Import Safety Act of 2007

In addition, the small time farmers and ranchers who may have run a couple hundred acres are now being replaced by the conglomerant corporations such as ConAgra Foods. There is no money in small time farming anymore.
 
Old 02-03-2008, 10:59 AM
 
Location: Las Flores, Orange County, CA
26,346 posts, read 80,983,179 times
Reputation: 17414
Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzlover View Post
The statistic is misleading....

I read a statistic several years ago that one square mile of Colorado open space was being lost to development in Colorado approximately EVERY 3 DAYS (and that rate has probably increased since then)--much of it agricultural land. Go take a walk--one mile north, one mile east, one mile south, one mile west--what you just walked around is what is being developed every 3 days. That would equate to just under a quarter acre being developed EVERY 2 MINUTES. Tick-tock.
Misleading statistic?

One mile per three days is about 120 square miles per year or 1200 square miles in ten years.

Colorado is 104100 square miles.

In ten years [(104100-1200)/104100] * 100 = 98.9% not developed.

And even if we consider that half of Colorado is plains (ranches/farms) and the other half is mountains (not ranches, not farms), then in ten years it's about 98% not developed.

This doesn't mean there are no water problems though.
Colorado and the West is running out of water . . .
 
Old 02-03-2008, 12:00 PM
 
3,460 posts, read 4,805,415 times
Reputation: 6677
Yes Charles, your stats are misleading.

Try rerunning your numbers subtracting undevelopable land such as BLM, state parks, national forest, national monuments, protected wetlands, land with no reasonable access due to terrain, land with no source of water, right of ways, covenants against development, etc.
 
Old 02-03-2008, 01:02 PM
 
5,748 posts, read 10,527,477 times
Reputation: 4494
Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzlover View Post
No, I just do have to sleep sometimes. I think it is probably abundantly clear to most who is playing which part in my analogy. Suffice it to say that two are sellers and one is the buyer. I'll leave it at that, and not pursue the point farther and risk the wrath of the moderator, who I wouldn't blame a bit for closing this thread.
Of course you have to sleep. My point was that you've tried to close the debate with a pithy statement, which places the blame right back on the California (Arizona, etc.) transplants, rather than address other possible factors.

Quote:
We are also going to be getting less yield out of every acre of farmland as time goes on. Much of that "green revolution" in farming was made possible by the use of fossil fuels--particularly oil, which is no longer going to be plentiful or cheap. Cross-country transportation of foodstuffs is also going to become much more problematic as energy prices spiral and fuel supplies become more uncertain. We will need productive agriculture close to home.
Here, you've made an interesting point. I find the latter part of your statement compelling; however, I'm not convinced that your initial assertion is true. Where are you getting your information?

Quote:
I read a statistic several years ago that one square mile of Colorado open space was being lost to development in Colorado approximately EVERY 3 DAYS (and that rate has probably increased since then)--much of it agricultural land. Go take a walk--one mile north, one mile east, one mile south, one mile west--what you just walked around is what is being developed every 3 days. That would equate to just under a quarter acre being developed EVERY 2 MINUTES. Tick-tock.
You're working from a measurement of past performance. While that statistic is certainly of concern (and probably ought to inspire change), nothing is linear in this world. Development ebbs & flows; it's not constant. Many factors will affect whether or not this trend holds. Furthermore, I think it's arguable that current conditions in the housing market may have already dampened development.

Why would the moderator close the thread? I've seen no personal attacks, merely a rousing debate. Am I to understand that we can only have a conversation if we all agree? What a pity!
 
Old 02-03-2008, 01:10 PM
 
3,460 posts, read 4,805,415 times
Reputation: 6677
Quote:
Originally Posted by formercalifornian View Post
My point was that you've tried to close the debate with a pithy statement, which places the blame right back on the California (Arizona, etc.) transplants, rather than address other possible factors.
Hence the name of the thread
 
Old 02-03-2008, 01:37 PM
 
7 posts, read 17,145 times
Reputation: 10
Has everyone forgotten that Colorado Springs is host to several military installations including the United States Air Force College/Base - Homeland Security, Norad, etc., duuh, probably one of the biggest reasons we have a lot of transplants from everywhere - they move in, they move out, the retire, and guess what, they spend their money here too!
 
Old 02-03-2008, 02:18 PM
 
20,372 posts, read 37,912,942 times
Reputation: 18179
Quote:
Originally Posted by formercalifornian View Post
....Why would the moderator close the thread? I've seen no personal attacks, merely a rousing debate. Am I to understand that we can only have a conversation if we all agree? What a pity!
Honest calm debate won't cause me to delete or close a thread. Personal attacks, name calling, flaming, bomb throwing, trolling for a fight or off topic stuff will get offending posts deleted and the poster given an infraction - or banned.

Still, I must state my dislike for topics that keep repeating, topics like this one, which we seem to beat to death every few months and end up at the same point each time. Several pages ago we seemed to be in agreement, however tacitly, that sprawl and mobilty are characteristics of every state, not just California, and to pin "blame" (for the alledged sins) on today's Californians for nationwide ills that started 50-75 years ago is neither fair nor logical.

Once this thread winds down, I may close it. I'm sick of it, as I am of threads that want to "explore" the "perception" that all of Colorado is one big wacko wingnut fundie tent revival, gun show and American Taliban training camp.
 
Old 02-03-2008, 02:27 PM
 
Location: Bend, OR
3,296 posts, read 8,222,237 times
Reputation: 3316
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike from back east View Post
Honest calm debate won't cause me to delete or close a thread. Personal attacks, name calling, flaming, bomb throwing, trolling for a fight or off topic stuff will get offending posts deleted and the poster given an infraction - or banned.

Still, I must state my dislike for topics that keep repeating, topics like this one, which we seem to beat to death every few months and end up at the same point each time. Several pages ago we seemed to be in agreement, however tacitly, that sprawl and mobilty are characteristics of every state, not just California, and to pin "blame" (for the alledged sins) on today's Californians for nationwide ills that started 50-75 years ago is neither fair nor logical.

Once this thread winds down, I may close it. I'm sick of it, as I am of threads that want to "explore" the "perception" that all of Colorado is one big wacko wingnut fundie tent revival, gun show and American Taliban training camp.

I can see why long time posters and members might be sick of a thread that keeps repeating itself. However, for those of us new to the boards, it would be a shame. Chances are the topic will come up again and someone will post. I know this was mentioned in another thread, but why close it if it is still active and creates interesting debate?
 
Old 02-03-2008, 02:29 PM
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
85,077 posts, read 99,122,332 times
Reputation: 31554
Drat, I can't give you rep for the above, Mike. I have to spread the love around a little more first. Love the part about the Taliban Training Camp!

I would like to say this about agriculture: Colorado has an arid climate. There is not much that can be grown w/o irrigation. We also have a short growing season (in the mtns almost non-eixistent). So maybe this isn't the 'prime agricultural land' that some think it is. After all, Colorado and the West is also running out of water, no?
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Closed Thread


Options
X
Data:
Loading data...
Based on 2000-2016 data
Loading data...

123
Hide US histogram

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > Colorado
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

2005-2018, Advameg, Inc.

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top