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Old 02-03-2008, 08:15 PM
 
5,748 posts, read 10,519,139 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzlover View Post
That said, the developers wouldn't be able to do this if they didn't have thousands of schleps standing in line to buy their wares. So whose fault is it? The people selling the product or the people buying it? I'll leave the question unanswered.
No answer necessary. You've made your opinion quite clear.

 
Old 02-09-2008, 03:51 PM
 
3 posts, read 6,117 times
Reputation: 13
Default I agree with part of that but..... hey!

YOu said: To someone who will say this is inevitable "progress," I say "Bull****!" I don't consider it progress at all. If having a bigger house and more crap to play with is the definition of "progress," maybe it is, but in terms of community, overall quality of life, and sustainability, it's not progress at all. It's degeneration into something increasingly ugly, undesirable, unsustainable, and insecure. We need to "re-examine the relationship" in the way we live.[/quote]

Well, you're right about the bigger house and more crap. That doesn't make life better. IT costs more to heat and cool a bigger house, and then you get tired of your crap, toss it out and get different crap. Vicious cycle. Agreed. But, don't forget, Californians have been thru it first: In the 70's New Yorkers invaded; in the 80's Coloradoans invaded. In the 90's the rest of teh world invaded. We got just as indignant. But we have to remember, our parents came here from somewhere else, and their parents did, too. So, I don't have a right to say, it's my state, go back where you came from, and neither do you. Sorry.
 
Old 02-09-2008, 04:03 PM
 
5,748 posts, read 10,519,139 times
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Absolutely, herethereandback! I'm thinking that the Native Americans living in the northeast U.S. weren't too thrilled to see my ancestors show up on the English ship, the Lyon, during the Great Migration of the 1630's. What comes around, goes around.
 
Old 02-09-2008, 04:09 PM
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
85,051 posts, read 98,999,163 times
Reputation: 31540
I agree, herethereandback, and have posted same before. Remember stuff like "No Irish need apply" and the like? Where does it stop if not with us?
 
Old 02-09-2008, 05:18 PM
 
20,346 posts, read 37,868,858 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Katiana View Post
I agree, herethereandback, and have posted same before. Remember stuff like "No Irish need apply" and the like? Where does it stop if not with us?
At swimming beaches along the Chesapeake Bay in Maryland, before WW-II, there used to signs ... Gentiles Only.

In Norfolk, there used to be signs ... Dogs and Sailors Keep Off Lawn.

We're getting better, but lots of people will complain nonetheless.
 
Old 02-10-2008, 09:03 AM
 
Location: Wherabouts Unknown!
7,756 posts, read 16,476,760 times
Reputation: 9292
IMO, anyone has a right to say, it's my state, go back to where you came from, but only those who have psychological probelms of some sort would exercise that right. Those on the receiving end would benefit greatly by laughing it off, and feeling sorry for the wounded locals.
 
Old 02-10-2008, 02:11 PM
 
8,317 posts, read 25,143,563 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NewAgeRedneck View Post
IMO, anyone has a right to say, it's my state, go back to where you came from, but only those who have psychological probelms of some sort would exercise that right. Those on the receiving end would benefit greatly by laughing it off, and feeling sorry for the wounded locals.
California actually did it in the 1930's--forcibly "deporting" many unemployed people attempting to "transplant" there. The authorities weren't especially courteous or nice about it, either. I don't suggest that should happen, but history shows that it certainly could happen under the right circumstances.
 
Old 02-10-2008, 02:38 PM
 
Location: Las Flores, Orange County, CA
26,346 posts, read 80,898,887 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzlover View Post
California actually did it in the 1930's--forcibly "deporting" many unemployed people attempting to "transplant" there. The authorities weren't especially courteous or nice about it, either. I don't suggest that should happen, but history shows that it certainly could happen under the right circumstances.

Illustrated here. Great film.

http://progressivefilms.org/catalog/images/The%20Grapes%20of%20Wrath.jpg (broken link)
 
Old 02-11-2008, 01:39 AM
 
49 posts, read 133,515 times
Reputation: 69
I do believe that much of the over-building and ruining of smaller towns everywhere are also the fault of their own local governments. There are many beautiful (desirable) places across America (and not just in Colorado) that are changing drastically, and not for the better, because people are moving in. It doesn't take "different attitudes", to make the change. The shear volume of people, which brings in more roadways through natural areas, more shopping..... in general, more infrastructure to support all the people, make huge changes to a town or city.

One place that comes to mind that has (so far) successfully NOT changed is (surprisingly) in California, and that is the town of Cambria. Of course people want to live there; close to a large city (San Luis Obispo), right on a beautiful part of the coast, clean air, lovely little town, with charming restaurants, close to wine country, close to lakes, and not subject to any really terrible weather patterns. The city government years ago put a stop to NEW HOMES going up. It can take 15 years just to get on a list to be in line for a building permit. As a result, houses are at a premium, and pretty expensive. The upside is, the town remains the same; small, quaint and beautiful. The downside is, either you are a true local and have lived there for many years (or the house has been in your family), or you can afford to pay any price for an existing home.

Of course, this is an extreme example. I am not sure if what Cambria has done is good for ALL, but it is good for long time locals, or the very wealthy. Would I love to live there? Yes!! Could I afford it? No!! And Cambria is probably the better for it.

If towns adapt a not as extreme, but similar attitude toward their own city's growth, they could retain some of the charm, and attributes they claim to want to protect so much. But if a city government does not want to do this, and instead allow rampant building to continue so they can get more and more taxes, the outcome is going to be obvious.

I am not saying this outcome is bad; we need affordable housing in desirable areas! I am just saying that unfortunately, you can't have it both ways. If there is a nice town, with nice surroundings, ALL TYPES of people, from EVERYWHERE are going to want to live there. And with the variety of people, you will have CHANGE, and yes at times, different attitudes. I just don't see how you can get away from that!

Last edited by justmyopinion; 02-11-2008 at 01:45 AM.. Reason: to be more clear -
 
Old 02-11-2008, 08:42 AM
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
85,051 posts, read 98,999,163 times
Reputation: 31540
^^^ I didn't read the above lengthly post word for word, but I think I got the gist. What is described above is similar to what Boulder tried to do back, say, 30 years ago. What happened? The surrounding communities grew instead. While IMO, the results of that are desirable, e.g. Louisville/Lafayette, etc grew and the population was more decentralized, some in Boulder were not happy when Ta, Da! the tax money left with the people! As long as the population of the US is growing, communities are going to grow. There is no way around this. If anyone wants to live in an exclusive enclave where the doors are locked after they move in, fine. I do not.
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