Attitudes Towards Californians (Denver, Grand Junction: mortgage, environment, agriculture)

[Noahma]

Originally Posted by DannyBanany

Everytime I visit Colorado, I hear how people say that everyone I see is not actually from there. Its chock-full of people from California and the Coloradoans all moved to the mid-west.

Is this true? If so, what are the general attitudes that Coloradoans have towards Californian 'immigrants'? What do Californians bring that Coloradoans dislike? Is there a positive aspect to them moving in?

Let me know!

Dont mind the Cali people moving here, they keep me in biz. I design custom homes. and when they move here, which has a lower cost of living than cali. they alwase come for the big homes.

[katysalsa]

What's with all the smugness towards people moving from California and Arizona. I'm definately getting the "get the hell out of our state" vibe from some people on this site. More so towards the CA folks than the "Zonies" as you call them/us. My husband and I just moved here to CO a week ago from AZ and are finding most everyone to be very friendly and welcoming, but I must say the attitudes towards the CA and AZ folks is a bit unsettling.

Any comments?

[MorningGlory]

Just ignore them. They are probably from Texas, or CA, or AZ themselves!

[justmyopinion]

Originally Posted by MorningGlory

Just ignore them. They are probably from Texas, or CA, or AZ themselves!

I agree - ignore them.

I had to laugh the other day. The car in front of me had one of those bumper stickers with an outline of Colorado, and the words "Native" in the middle. I have lived in 3 different states in the last 4 years and I have seen the same bumper sticker with the SAME message for each state.

What does that mean? So what? I don't care if someone is a "native" or not. I mean it is nice but.. what am I suppose to think? Afterall, everyone is from SOMEPLACE! Some people are nice, some people are not so nice, regardless where they were born.

[vegaspilgrim]

Originally Posted by katysalsa

What's with all the smugness towards people moving from California and Arizona. I'm definately getting the "get the hell out of our state" vibe from some people on this site. More so towards the CA folks than the "Zonies" as you call them/us. My husband and I just moved here to CO a week ago from AZ and are finding most everyone to be very friendly and welcoming, but I must say the attitudes towards the CA and AZ folks is a bit unsettling.

Any comments?

There's definitely a resentment of Californians among certain small segments of the population in Colorado. Also, some people have a problem with Texans, and some people have a problem with New Yorkers (or people from the east coast in general). That issue has already been addressed on this forum. As for Arizonans-- not really. To tell you the truth, most Coloradans don't really know much or even care about Arizona. Among those that do, it's usually a positive relationship-- a lot of people in CO take road trips and vacations throughout AZ and the southwest. We used to go to Arizona(Grand Canyon, Sedona, Phoenix, etc) on family road trips every year growing up. Then I moved to Tempe to go to ASU in 2004. Soon I'll be back to CO! There's always a small trickle of people going back and forth between CO and AZ. Some like the heat, some like the cold. Heck, the reference to "zonies" you read might have been posted by me! I used the term in a sort of joking, affectionate way, not as an insult.

[formercalifornian]

Originally Posted by Noahma

Dont mind the Cali people moving here, they keep me in biz. I design custom homes. and when they move here, which has a lower cost of living than cali. they alwase come for the big homes.

Not this formercalifornian! I do not understand the mentality of buying a custom McMansion, but I see California & Arizona transplants do it all the time. They put down all their equity and then take a 30-year mortgage on top of it for a ridiculously huge & overdone house with a view, all so they can prove that they've made it. (No offense, Noahma. I'm sure the homes you design are lovely.)

The best advice my grandmother every gave me was "Don't buy things you don't need with money you don't have to impress people who don't matter," and "Never buy on time (i.e., with credit)." She was one smart cookie.

[Charles]

Originally Posted by formercalifornian

"Never buy on time (i.e., with credit)." She was one smart cookie.

I wonder what she would think of 5% 30 fixed rate mortgages with interest that can be written off?

I think they're great.

[jazzlover]

Originally Posted by Charles

I wonder what she would think of 5% 30 fixed rate mortgages with interest that can be written off?

I think they're great.

Ever wonder how the 30-year mortgage got started? It was seen as a way that a person in their mid- to late-20's could get away from renting a home and be able to buy a home instead--AND HAVE THE MORTGAGE PAID OFF BY THE TIME HE (at that time, the husband was the usual breadwinner for a family) WAS OF RETIREMENT AGE. Now, you see all kinds of people, clear into their 60's and 70's or older taking out 30 year mortgages--with the expectation that home appreciation will bail them (or their heirs) out when it comes time to sell the property. This very faulty assumption will lead to the financial ruination of many older folks (including a lot of baby boomers) as the residential real estate market unravels in the years ahead.

A pretty financially well-off guy I know, who is a pretty sharp businessperson, said this about a home:

It's not an investment.
It's not a savings account.
It's not an ATM.
It's a place to live.

Anyone who buys a house thinking it is anything else than a place to live is making a very serious long-term financial mistake. For most of the last century, excluding the insane last few years, appreciation in home values has barely kept up with inflation. The stock market, with all of its ups and downs, has done much better. It's unfortunate that a whole couple of generations of Americans are about to financially get their heads bashed in because they have been brainwashed by a few years of abnormal real estate market behavior into thinking that "investing" in their fancy house with borrowed money was a sure way to financial gain. More than a few Californians, Arizonans, and Nevadans are finding that out the hard way right now in their home states just how flawed that assumption was.

The only more hapless thing to do than buying a house with borrowed money that probably is beyond the buyer's means to repay is borrowing money to finance depreciating assets (cars, boats, RV's, etc., etc.) or just borrowing money for pure consumption (vacations, trinkets, etc.). Financially, that makes about as much sense as flushing the money down the john.

[Charles]

Originally Posted by jazzlover

The stock market, with all of its ups and downs, has done much better.

Exactly. That's why I'd rather buy a home to live in with "cheap" money and invest money that otherwise would be spent on a home in tax efficient growth mutual funds. And that is after I maxed out my 401(k) (to the pre tax limit of $15500) and after I fund two Roth IRAs (2 X $5000) and after I fund four education IRAs (4 X $2000). The absolutely last thing I want to do is pay down a 5% or 6% mortgage.

I'd bet your friend does nearly the same thing I do. I've never had a credit card balance in my life. I've never had a car payment in my life. I've fully contributed to IRAs ever since I've had earned income. I've never contributed less than the max to 401(k)s.

The problem is exactly in the words written "beyond their means to pay". A person making $60K is looking for big trouble when they borrow $400K or $500K like those knuckleheads with the wacky loans. A figure like $250K is much more realistic.

Fool.com: Paying Off the Mortgage Early

[jazzlover]

I am now going to try to explain to the OP why there is a considerable distrust and possibly dislike of transplanted Californians in the minds of many long-time residents of the Rocky Mountain West--it is not an attitude limited to Colorado, by any means.

Many in this region have watched with alarm what has happened in California in the last 50 years or so: rampant growth, uncontrolled urban sprawl, drying up of wetlands and agriculture to divert water to be largely wasted (on grass) in cities, loss of sense of community in sprawling suburban blobs, overcrowding of recreation areas, loss of solitude in what few pristine areas remain, increases in crime--the list goes on and on.

Many in the Rocky Mountain region look upon what has happened in California as a parasitic bacteria overwhelming and slowly destroying its formerly healthy and beautiful host. They see the outflow of Californians, rightfully or wrongfully, to other areas as that infectious disease spreading from its dying host to new, still vibrant and healthy areas--infecting them with same degenerative destruction. To those who say it isn't so, they point to the same pathogenic symptoms now appearing in places like Colorado--the sprawl, the traffic, the water problems--and say, "It looks EXACTLY like what started happening in California fifty years ago and look how that place wound up. WE DON'T WANT TO WIND UP LIKE THAT!" Those people feel helpless and frustrated (undoubtedly like a lot native Californians did 40 or 50 years ago) that their HOME is being wrecked and their lifestyle destroyed by growth they didn't ask for and by people they didn't invite. Most of all they feel resentment at seeing the things they cherish the most--including leaving a beautiful place to be passed on to their children and grandchildren--being irreversibly lost. I know a lot of Californians who left their home state because they resented what happened to the place they called home. Unfortunately, more than a few of them are "carriers" to the Rocky Mountain West of the same disease that is rotting California from the inside.