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Old 02-01-2008, 09:00 PM
 
Location: Bend, OR
3,296 posts, read 8,196,177 times
Reputation: 3316

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Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzlover View Post
I am now going to try to explain to the OP why there is a considerable distrust and possibly dislike of transplanted Californians in the minds of many long-time residents of the Rocky Mountain West--it is not an attitude limited to Colorado, by any means.

Many in this region have watched with alarm what has happened in California in the last 50 years or so: rampant growth, uncontrolled urban sprawl, drying up of wetlands and agriculture to divert water to be largely wasted (on grass) in cities, loss of sense of community in sprawling suburban blobs, overcrowding of recreation areas, loss of solitude in what few pristine areas remain, increases in crime--the list goes on and on.

Many in the Rocky Mountain region look upon what has happened in California as a parasitic bacteria overwhelming and slowly destroying its formerly healthy and beautiful host. They see the outflow of Californians, rightfully or wrongfully, to other areas as that infectious disease spreading from its dying host to new, still vibrant and healthy areas--infecting them with same degenerative destruction. To those who say it isn't so, they point to the same pathogenic symptoms now appearing in places like Colorado--the sprawl, the traffic, the water problems--and say, "It looks EXACTLY like what started happening in California fifty years ago and look how that place wound up. WE DON'T WANT TO WIND UP LIKE THAT!" Those people feel helpless and frustrated (undoubtedly like a lot native Californians did 40 or 50 years ago) that their HOME is being wrecked and their lifestyle destroyed by growth they didn't ask for and by people they didn't invite. Most of all they feel resentment at seeing the things they cherish the most--including leaving a beautiful place to be passed on to their children and grandchildren--being irreversibly lost. I know a lot of Californians who left their home state because they resented what happened to the place they called home. Unfortunately, more than a few of them are "carriers" to the Rocky Mountain West of the same disease that is rotting California from the inside.
Well said Jazzlover. We are seeing this trend explode in Grand Junction right now. I have lived here a little over 5 years. When my husband and I first moved here we had 1 regular Mal-Wart, a couple of larger grocery stores chains, and lots of small mom and pop shops. Now we have 2 super Mal-Warts, all the big box stores, massive shopping complexes, and a sea of suburbian sprawl. Our neighborhood is intermixed with older homes, new homes, and agriculture land. This land is being bought and developed into subdivisions that remind me of any Denver, er California, suburb. With the influx of people in the oil & gas industry, we will only continue to grow. The growth is mismanaged, unplanned, and downright ugly!

It is not the "Californians" we hate, but the lifestyle they demand and bring with them. Everything must be convenient, a Starbucks on every corner, but not close enough that you could ever walk to them. Everything is a gas guzzling SUV drive away. The air quality is terrible, I wouldn't dare ride my bike to work for fear of becoming the next speed bump, and life feels like the rat race...just keeping up with the Jones'. Something has to change in America and stop this consumeristic, just trying to get ahead lifestyle. I'm sick of it!

 
Old 02-01-2008, 10:54 PM
 
5,748 posts, read 10,501,488 times
Reputation: 4494
Quote:
Originally Posted by Charles View Post
I wonder what she would think of 5% 30 fixed rate mortgages with interest that can be written off?
Charles...she was talking about consumer goods like cars, furniture, clothing, etc., not housing. If I recall the story correctly, she and my grandfather bought their only house, an 800 sq. ft bungalow, with a $6000 mortgage in 1952, paying it off completely before the end of the decade. My grandmother died a year ago, but my grandfather still lives there. I have always admired their frugality (they saved 50% of everything they earned!) and their constant expressions of gratitude for their blessings. They were excellent role models for me, and I'm trying hard to follow in their footsteps.
 
Old 02-01-2008, 11:08 PM
 
Location: Eastern Colorado
3,757 posts, read 4,397,860 times
Reputation: 4850
Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzlover View Post
I am now going to try to explain to the OP why there is a considerable distrust and possibly dislike of transplanted Californians in the minds of many long-time residents of the Rocky Mountain West--it is not an attitude limited to Colorado, by any means.

Many in this region have watched with alarm what has happened in California in the last 50 years or so: rampant growth, uncontrolled urban sprawl, drying up of wetlands and agriculture to divert water to be largely wasted (on grass) in cities, loss of sense of community in sprawling suburban blobs, overcrowding of recreation areas, loss of solitude in what few pristine areas remain, increases in crime--the list goes on and on.

Many in the Rocky Mountain region look upon what has happened in California as a parasitic bacteria overwhelming and slowly destroying its formerly healthy and beautiful host. They see the outflow of Californians, rightfully or wrongfully, to other areas as that infectious disease spreading from its dying host to new, still vibrant and healthy areas--infecting them with same degenerative destruction. To those who say it isn't so, they point to the same pathogenic symptoms now appearing in places like Colorado--the sprawl, the traffic, the water problems--and say, "It looks EXACTLY like what started happening in California fifty years ago and look how that place wound up. WE DON'T WANT TO WIND UP LIKE THAT!" Those people feel helpless and frustrated (undoubtedly like a lot native Californians did 40 or 50 years ago) that their HOME is being wrecked and their lifestyle destroyed by growth they didn't ask for and by people they didn't invite. Most of all they feel resentment at seeing the things they cherish the most--including leaving a beautiful place to be passed on to their children and grandchildren--being irreversibly lost. I know a lot of Californians who left their home state because they resented what happened to the place they called home. Unfortunately, more than a few of them are "carriers" to the Rocky Mountain West of the same disease that is rotting California from the inside.
Well said, although I am still relatively young compared to some on this board, I do not mind the people, it is the changes they all seem to want that bug me. People complain about high taxes elsewhere, yet they want the same services that governments in other areas offer, take the streets getting plowed immediatly after an hour storm with less the an inch on the ground, so how do they think those get paid for? They want the same stores they had back home, yet complain about the sprawl. They all want a nice home with great views, and then complain that there are houses all over the nice areas that they came from. People move here for many of the great things that this state has to offer, leave the stuff from your home there, and enjoy the great stuff this state has to offer, without destroying it, and I have no problem with you.

Often what I find is that is is people from other areas who complain about all the others moving here, many of the issues that native Coloradoans have is the constant bitching we hear from people who move here and want to change everything to get what they had back home, we like Colorado the way it was, and the way it could still be.
 
Old 02-01-2008, 11:27 PM
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
84,957 posts, read 98,776,620 times
Reputation: 31371
Quote:
we like Colorado the way it was,
Nothing can ever be the way it was. The only constant in life is change. I do not really see any groundswell from the Californians to "change everything" to make it like California. I would like to see an example once in a while from those who make that accusation.
 
Old 02-01-2008, 11:48 PM
 
Location: Eastern Colorado
3,757 posts, read 4,397,860 times
Reputation: 4850
Quote:
Originally Posted by pittnurse70 View Post
Nothing can ever be the way it was. The only constant in life is change. I do not really see any groundswell from the Californians to "change everything" to make it like California. I would like to see an example once in a while from those who make that accusation.
Who said anything about a groundswell, it is a slow movement, towards things that people miss from back home, pretty soon it becomes just like back home with a different scenery, yet nobody means for it to happen, it just works out that way. Also I would like to add it is not just Californians, in large part it is just human nature, just like it is human nature for those of us who grew up without many of the problems and issues that we are now facing as a state to want a return to when there were not those problems. Like the water issue, huge sprawling suburbs with little sense of community, growing and increasing costs of living and homes, driving downs old highways with a million cars all over them where there were once none, homes built on ridges and mountains that were once a nice place to spend the day on a picnic, and not having 100 people in a campground that was originally built for 25 people.
 
Old 02-02-2008, 07:16 AM
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
84,957 posts, read 98,776,620 times
Reputation: 31371
Time to revive this one:

A Modest Proposal
 
Old 02-02-2008, 08:51 AM
 
Location: Mammoth Lakes, CA
3,088 posts, read 6,626,055 times
Reputation: 7126
I'm a native California who will retire to Colorado. Comments like this are very inflammatory and take "generalizing" to a new level:

"It is not the "Californians" we hate, but the lifestyle they demand and bring with them. Everything must be convenient, a Starbucks on every corner, but not close enough that you could ever walk to them. Everything is a gas guzzling SUV drive away."

How can anyone possibly put all 36 million Californians into one convenient (and inaccurate) generalization like this?

I drive a Prius, I have been in one Wal-Mart in my entire life and have never been in a Starbucks. So much for your pithy generalizations of Californians.

What you fail to mention is that any Californian like this is very unlikely to move to Colorado. I'm a fervent environmentalist, hiker, and hate excess. Californians who are into convenience would not move to Colorado, with its snow and weather conditions.

Please don't blame Colorado's perceived problems on Californians.
 
Old 02-02-2008, 09:21 AM
 
Location: Bend, OR
3,296 posts, read 8,196,177 times
Reputation: 3316
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ulysses61 View Post
I'm a native California who will retire to Colorado. Comments like this are very inflammatory and take "generalizing" to a new level:

"It is not the "Californians" we hate, but the lifestyle they demand and bring with them. Everything must be convenient, a Starbucks on every corner, but not close enough that you could ever walk to them. Everything is a gas guzzling SUV drive away."

How can anyone possibly put all 36 million Californians into one convenient (and inaccurate) generalization like this?

I drive a Prius, I have been in one Wal-Mart in my entire life and have never been in a Starbucks. So much for your pithy generalizations of Californians.

What you fail to mention is that any Californian like this is very unlikely to move to Colorado. I'm a fervent environmentalist, hiker, and hate excess. Californians who are into convenience would not move to Colorado, with its snow and weather conditions.

Please don't blame Colorado's perceived problems on Californians.
My apologies Ulysses61. My comment is not about all Californians. I hardly meant to generalize all 36 million into a generalization such as that. I happen to have family in California who cannot wait to move back to Colorado. Where I live now, it is mostly Texans, and other southerners, who are moving in. What I was trying to generalize, is the fact that so many people move to an area wanting all the conveniences they have become accustomed to. They like the small town feel of some areas in CO (granted the Front Range doesn't have much of this anymore), yet they become upset when they don't have all the stores they were used to.

I lived in southern California for 3 months while my husband was on a travel nurse assignment. What I saw there was mass consumerism, unwalkable communities, massive sprawl, and unfriendly people. The Front Range is following in the footsteps of southern CA. It is not all the Californians moving in that I have a problem with, as people move all the time. I don't really care where your from, I just don't like the direction CO is heading in.

I hope more people with your mindset, and lifestyle, move here. We need concientious people. Unfortunately, your statement, "What you fail to mention is that any Californian like this is very unlikely to move to Colorado" is inaccurate as well. Most people moving into Colorado are people like I mentioned in my previous post. At least this is what I am seeing in my community.
 
Old 02-02-2008, 09:29 AM
 
Location: Bend, OR
3,296 posts, read 8,196,177 times
Reputation: 3316
Quote:
Originally Posted by pittnurse70 View Post
Time to revive this one:

A Modest Proposal
I got a good laugh with this one! My previous post was not meant to insinuate that all non-native (whatever that means) Coloradoans should not move here. Far from it! I don't mind people moving to the state. I understand wanting to move, as I am looking for myself (and even considering other states, shhh...) However, what I don't like to see, is people moving in and wanting it to be the same as where they left. Why did you leave??? I know some have to leave as a matter of employment, they have no choice. But, please, embrace the community and stop trying to make it more like home.

Of course, as you said in another post, change is the only thing that is constant. Part of the change happening on the western slope of CO has to do with pop. growth in general. Once a community hits that magic number, all the big box stores move in. It's a matter of supply and demand. I know Californians, Texans, or (insert any other state here) ??? are not responsible for bringing these stores here. It just so happens all this change comes about because of the increase of pop. It is just sad to me to see the small businesses driven out.
 
Old 02-02-2008, 09:30 AM
 
5,748 posts, read 10,501,488 times
Reputation: 4494
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ulysses61 View Post
I'm a native California who will retire to Colorado. Comments like this are very inflammatory and take "generalizing" to a new level:

"It is not the "Californians" we hate, but the lifestyle they demand and bring with them. Everything must be convenient, a Starbucks on every corner, but not close enough that you could ever walk to them. Everything is a gas guzzling SUV drive away."

How can anyone possibly put all 36 million Californians into one convenient (and inaccurate) generalization like this?

I drive a Prius, I have been in one Wal-Mart in my entire life and have never been in a Starbucks. So much for your pithy generalizations of Californians.

What you fail to mention is that any Californian like this is very unlikely to move to Colorado. I'm a fervent environmentalist, hiker, and hate excess. Californians who are into convenience would not move to Colorado, with its snow and weather conditions.

Please don't blame Colorado's perceived problems on Californians.
Be prepared. Colorado is a very auto-dependent place. It's not that people don't want to walk; it's that they can't. I find that being an environmentalist is very difficult here.
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