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Old 02-02-2008, 09:48 AM
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
84,960 posts, read 98,795,031 times
Reputation: 31371

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Quote:
However, what I don't like to see, is people moving in and wanting it to be the same as where they left. Why did you leave??? I know some have to leave as a matter of employment, they have no choice. But, please, embrace the community and stop trying to make it more like home.
I really don't know what is meant here. I think most people move for a change. I don't think anyone comes here and tries to make it like California. Home styles and housing subdivisions are the much the same everywhere. Yes, a few differences; the eastern and midwestern states favor the more traditional styles, the southwest goes more for the, well, southwestern style. As the next poster said, Colorado is very auto-dependent. It was that way when we moved here in 1980. You can't blame this all on the Californians. My DH went to college in California, and found it to be about as walkable as here.

 
Old 02-02-2008, 09:56 AM
 
8,317 posts, read 25,095,377 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by formercalifornian View Post
Be prepared. Colorado is a very auto-dependent place. It's not that people don't want to walk; it's that they can't. I find that being an environmentalist is very difficult here.
That is because Colorado has and is being developed on the same stupid model that California so energetically embraced over a half-century ago. Developers love it because it is most profitable for them, and it is the easiest way to socialize its costs on to the general taxpayers. Millions of Americans embrace it because, for most of them, it is now the only living arrangement that they have ever known. The whole "suburban" model as we now know it, though, is headed for complete failure and utter collapse because it is based on one completely false assumption: that critical resources to sustain it--land, water, and petroleum--are endlessly available cheap resources. Of course, those resources are not endless, nor will they remain cheap. When America finally awakes to this from its consumptive, debt-fueled, self-indulgent coma, it will find itself in a life-changing crisis that some may not survive. The longer Americans wait to wake up, the worse it's going to be.
 
Old 02-02-2008, 10:00 AM
 
20,304 posts, read 37,790,850 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by delta07 View Post
....I lived in southern California for 3 months while my husband was on a travel nurse assignment. What I saw there was mass consumerism, unwalkable communities, massive sprawl, and unfriendly people. The Front Range is following in the footsteps of southern CA....
I really gotta speak up here.... we, all of us, seem to be making a statement that is not logical as the "consumerism, unwalkable communities, massive sprawl, and unfriendly people" spoken of is NOT limited to California, it is everywhere, thus to connect only Californians to generic national characteristics is outright fallacious thinking. We should practice more logical methods as we think, i.e., good "critical thinking" skills (yes I have more info on that).

People come here from CA, NV, AZ, TX, FL, VA (me!) and other states that ALL have the same unlikable sprawling footprint. Beating up on Californians for a national trend is not logical, or warranted. We all want a flavor of home - I want crabcakes (yes, they're on the way, courtesy of QVC) and I wish a few good restaurants here in town would learn how to make them. I can teach them how.

I recall back in the recession of the 1970's, lots of people from MI went to TX to find work. Texans referred to them as "black tag" people, as the MI license plates on the cars were black. Nothing wrong with the people, just that a lot came from one area, at that time in our history, so the Texans had some "fun" with them. Same here, lots of people leaving other states for here (and elsewhere) so they seem to be the ones "getting the business" from the locals. It's nothing new, lots of people left the Ozarks for CA during the Dust Bowl years, aka the Okies and Arkies. People made fun of those wretched dirt poor migrants as they headed west, but west they went, and they grew California into an orchard and farming miracle.

People move and migrate, been happening since the Mayflower landed at Plymouth Rock...there went the neighborhood....
 
Old 02-02-2008, 10:21 AM
 
8,317 posts, read 25,095,377 times
Reputation: 9065
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike from back east View Post
I really gotta speak up here.... we, all of us, seem to be making a statement that is not logical as the "consumerism, unwalkable communities, massive sprawl, and unfriendly people" spoken of is NOT limited to California, it is everywhere, thus to connect only Californians to generic national characteristics is outright fallacious thinking. We should practice more logical methods as we think, i.e., good "critical thinking" skills (yes I have more info on that).

People come here from CA, NV, AZ, TX, FL, VA (me!) and other states that ALL have the same unlikable sprawling footprint. Beating up on Californians for a national trend is not logical, or warranted. We all want a flavor of home - I want crabcakes (yes, they're on the way, courtesy of QVC) and I wish a few good restaurants here in town would learn how to make them. I can teach them how.

I recall back in the recession of the 1970's, lots of people from MI went to TX to find work. Texans referred to them as "black tag" people, as the MI license plates on the cars were black. Nothing wrong with the people, just that a lot came from one area, at that time in our history, so the Texans had some "fun" with them. Same here, lots of people leaving other states for here (and elsewhere) so they seem to be the ones "getting the business" from the locals. It's nothing new, lots of people left the Ozarks for CA during the Dust Bowl years, aka the Okies and Arkies that went west and grew California into an orchard and farming miracle.

People move and migrate, been happening since the Mayflower landed at Plymouth Rock...there went the neighborhood....
Mike, while I agree with much that you just said, the fact is that a lot of the trends toward sprawl and suburbanization took root most heavily first in California. In fact, since then, California has often prided itself on being the trend-leader for the nation--"So goes California, so goes the nation" became a mantra (these days, I say, "God help us, if that's true," but I digress). Also, geographically, the two states have some commonality: the destruction by sprawl of relatively scarce but highly productive irrigated agricultural lands, cities built in arid areas reliant on "drying up" other areas and diverting water, the near complete reliance on the automobile, a spectacular but very rare and environmentally sensitive landscape easily destroyed. I think it is quite fair, then, to draw a very distinct and plausible parallel between what happened in California in the last 50-75 years to what is happening in Colorado now. As far as "blaming" Californians for what is happening in Colorado, the sheer numbers of people relocating here from California makes that hard to escape, but Californians hardly are alone there. Texans, mid-westerners, southerners, easterners, etc.--and, yes, quite a few Coloradans--can all take a bite out of that **** sandwich.
 
Old 02-02-2008, 10:30 AM
 
Location: Bend, OR
3,296 posts, read 8,197,447 times
Reputation: 3316
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike from back east View Post
I really gotta speak up here.... we, all of us, seem to be making a statement that is not logical as the "consumerism, unwalkable communities, massive sprawl, and unfriendly people" spoken of is NOT limited to California, it is everywhere, thus to connect only Californians to generic national characteristics is outright fallacious thinking. We should practice more logical methods as we think, i.e., good "critical thinking" skills (yes I have more info on that).

People come here from CA, NV, AZ, TX, FL, VA (me!) and other states that ALL have the same unlikable sprawling footprint. Beating up on Californians for a national trend is not logical, or warranted.
Maybe you missed my other post. I mentioned that it is not just Californians, but anyone that has this same urban sprawl mentality that is causing the problem. I realize this problem has been steadily increasing since the 1970's. To insinuate that I am not using good critical thinking skills, well...that is just not true!

I only mentioned my experience with southern CA because the topic of this post is Californians moving in. I can share with you my experiences with Washington, as well as Aurora, CO. However, this national trend did start in CA. As Jazzlover so poingnantly stated, the development model CO and many other states is embracing, began in California with the developers. So, no, it is not the people of California's fault. Blame the developers!!! The movie, Who Killed the Electric Car, is a great one about this. I would suggest watching it if you have not seen it. It was a big eye opener to me. I was born in the late 70's, in suburbian CO. I did not know of another way of living. However, as I have lived in small towns, I much prefer the walkable communities.
 
Old 02-02-2008, 10:41 AM
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
84,960 posts, read 98,795,031 times
Reputation: 31371
Place of birth for U.S.-born residents:

This state: 222531
Northeast: 33351
Midwest: 89984
South: 56085
West: 50167

Stats from City-Data for Denver, the largest city in Colorado. If you want to blame anyone for "spoiling" CO, start with Colorado itself, then look to the midwest. That's where the "droves" are coming from, not California or NY.

The suburban subdivision concept can be said to have started in Levittown, LI, NY, right after WWII. Some of the worst burbs, in terms of walkability, are in the northeastern US, where most do not have sidewalks.
 
Old 02-02-2008, 11:34 AM
 
3,460 posts, read 4,790,435 times
Reputation: 6677
If you're a yank, you don't move to the south and complain about how they do things. The proper answer is 'I never knew I was really a southerner'.

If you're from California and want to move to Colorado, the same principle applies.
 
Old 02-02-2008, 11:34 AM
 
5,748 posts, read 10,502,858 times
Reputation: 4494
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike from back east View Post
I really gotta speak up here.... we, all of us, seem to be making a statement that is not logical as the "consumerism, unwalkable communities, massive sprawl, and unfriendly people" spoken of is NOT limited to California, it is everywhere, thus to connect only Californians to generic national characteristics is outright fallacious thinking.
Mike, please don't misunderstand my post. I agree completely with you that the issues aren't limited to California. I've lived in enough places to know that's not true. In fact, my fear is that many prospective transplants build Colorado up as some environmentalist utopia, when nothing could be further from the truth.

P.S. I miss those crabcakes, too.

Quote:
If you're a yank, you don't move to the south and complain about how they do things. The proper answer is 'I never knew I was really a southerner'.

If you're from California and want to move to Colorado, the same principle applies.
I wish things were different here, but they're not. Compliance to regional norms isn't really the problem.

Last edited by formercalifornian; 02-02-2008 at 11:43 AM..
 
Old 02-02-2008, 11:40 AM
 
Location: Denver, CO
5,607 posts, read 20,184,784 times
Reputation: 5311
The problem isn't Californians (or Texans, or No. Virginians, or insert group here_____) in general-- it's the type of Californians (or Texans, or No. Virginians, or insert group here_____) that tend to move to states like Colorado. It's the sense of entitlement. I read it over and over again on this message board. It usually goes something like this (paraphrasing): "Yeah, I've lived in northern Virginia, commuting the last 20 years to DC, and I am SOOO done with the traffic, congestion, unfriendly attitudes, and high home prices here. I'm moving to Colorado, and I need to be within two hours of Denver-- but I don't want to live in the city, or even the suburbs-- been there, done that. I want acerage, and I want to get a house twice as big as what I'm living in now, for half the price. Oh yeah, and living on the plains-- that's not good enough for me. It has to be IN the mountains. And actually living IN a mountain valley town is below me-- I deserve to live ON the mountain right in the trees."

I can understand why Californians want to move out-- #1, the cost of living, and #2, the congestion, and all the urban problems. I respect middle-class Californians who move to Colorado so they can actually make ends meet and own a home for the first time and provide for their families. But rather than moving to Colorado, or Arizona, or even Texas, as a way to cut costs, save, and get ahead financially, a lot of Californians move to those states so they can become more materialistic than ever before! They take the equity out of their homes, which if they were lucky were bought a long time idea, and then buy a house two, three times as big, and more luxury cars. Native Californians in California, and those driven out by economic necessity are decent people, IMO. It's the 2nd type of California expats that create the bad reputation, ruining it for everyone else.
 
Old 02-02-2008, 11:52 AM
 
8,317 posts, read 25,095,377 times
Reputation: 9065
Quote:
Originally Posted by vegaspilgrim View Post
The problem isn't Californians (or Texans, or No. Virginians, or insert group here_____) in general-- it's the type of Californians (or Texans, or No. Virginians, or insert group here_____) that tend to move to states like Colorado. It's the sense of entitlement. I read it over and over again on this message board. It usually goes something like this (paraphrasing): "Yeah, I've lived in northern Virginia, commuting the last 20 years to DC, and I am SOOO done with the traffic, congestion, unfriendly attitudes, and high home prices here. I'm moving to Colorado, and I need to be within two hours of Denver-- but I don't want to live in the city, or even the suburbs-- been there, done that. I want acerage, and I want to get a house twice as big as what I'm living in now, for half the price. Oh yeah, and living on the plains-- that's not good enough for me. It has to be IN the mountains. And actually living IN a mountain valley town is below me-- I deserve to live ON the mountain right in the trees."

I can understand why Californians want to move out-- #1, the cost of living, and #2, the congestion, and all the urban problems. I respect middle-class Californians who move to Colorado so they can actually make ends meet and own a home for the first time and provide for their families. But rather than moving to Colorado, or Arizona, or even Texas, as a way to cut costs, save, and get ahead financially, a lot of Californians move to those states so they can become more materialistic than ever before! They take the equity out of their homes, which if they were lucky were bought a long time idea, and then buy a house two, three times as big, and more luxury cars. Native Californians in California, and those driven out by economic necessity are decent people, IMO. It's the 2nd type of California expats that create the bad reputation, ruining it for everyone else.
Quite well-stated.
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