U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > Colorado
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 02-05-2011, 11:16 AM
 
Location: Everywhere and Nowhere
14,131 posts, read 26,255,168 times
Reputation: 6815

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by MontclairNative View Post
Factor in ther cost of a liquor license. that's where the money is.
Perhaps that's a flaw with the "family style restaurant" concept here.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 02-07-2011, 01:19 PM
 
5 posts, read 5,111 times
Reputation: 10
Thank you guys for the advice, working in the area before hand is indeed a great idea since the needs of the community will be different than other areas where I will work at in the future. I was hoping to have a dual ownership with someone that way we can balance work and family time, because while it is one of my goals to work in this area I don't want to get burned out.

Since it seems that the Italian restaurant market is over saturated, what do you guys think the area needs (if anything at all)? Is the 1.7 million buying price typical everywhere? or just the higher end places? Sorry for all the questions, I am just trying to get an idea of what I'll be walking into in the future. (My college doesn't do a good job preparing us for owning our own business, it is more geared towards securing us higher level management positions in established companies, so I don't know where to really look to obtain the information I need.)

Thank you guys I really appreciate the advice, just trying to make my way in the world doing what I love.

I am also open to change the concept to something more lucrative, I just love cooking Italian food for my friends and family right now (guess I'm too dug into my family roots haha)
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-07-2011, 03:25 PM
 
10,871 posts, read 41,150,426 times
Reputation: 14014
Quote:
Originally Posted by ucskibum88 View Post
(snip) Is the 1.7 million buying price typical everywhere? or just the higher end places? (snip)
LOL ... this isn't a "high end place" price, it's pretty average.

When you're looking at buying an exisitng restaurant in resort towns, it's typical to find a track record of well over a million dollars per year gross sales.

If it's an ongoing business, you'll be buying the facility as currently decorated and it may ... or may not ... include restaurant fixtures & equipment, menu and recipes, inventory, supplies, and so forth necessary to the operation of the business.

You'll typically be taking over the remainder of a lease, not buying the real estate.

As an example, a 2,700 sq ft restaurant in a prime location in Vail Village is available right now at $1.3 mil ... and it does not include the fixtures and equipment (available separately by the seller), the menu/recipes, or inventory or supplies. Essentially, all you're buying is the existing decor, tables, chairs, booths, bar/owned dispensing equipment and permanently installed equipment (sinks, counters, etc.), and the possession of the place to operate a business in an established restaurant location.

You'd need to start your new restaurant business with your own new identity, advertising, equipment & fixtures, plates/tableware, food inventory, recipes/menu, everything right down to the cash register and your credit card terminal. Don't forget you'll need to hire and train your staff, and have enough working capital to be able to pay your suppliers and help and overhead expenses, as well as your taxes on cash flow ... before ever seeing the possibility of a profit and income for yourself. If you need to redecorate ... as the example I've cited is a sushi bar restaurant ... for an Italian themed place, you'll be paying for that before you can even open the doors for business.

Many food/equipment suppliers to the industry have been badly burned in the last few years. You'll not find easy credit for deliveries from them anymore; even if you operate as a corporation, they'll require you to sign a personal guarantee for any debt, and they'll be checking your credit history out pretty well before extending you credit beyond a very minimal amount. If you've not owned a successful restaurant before, they'll more than likely not be flexible in their pricing or terms.

If any of this sounds foreign to you, even after all your classes to get into this business ... you are nowhere close to being prepared to own and operate a restaurant business, let alone in a highly competitive atmosphere of a resort where folks have the time and affluence to be discriminating about their choices.

There's folks on this forum who will chime in and tell you to "follow your dreams, don't let the naysayers discourage you, etc. etc". Rarely have these folks opened up one successful business, or one as risky as what you are proposing to do. You are facing years of 110+ hour weeks of hard work ahead to establish a business which may only be able to support itself, not you ... is this what you really want to do?


I'm gonna' tell it to you straight: You cannot operate this type of business on a wing and a prayer. It takes business capital investment, working capital, back side of the house management skills (PR, marketing, sales, inventory control, etc.), and a lot of hours on-site to have even a remote possibility of surviving, let alone making a salary and a ROI from your investment. If you have to take in partners who need to be getting a return on their investment, they will expect performance, not excuses. If you don't have "the formula" of success in your grasp, and can compete with others in your marketplace ... you will not make it, especially in a two-season resort marketplace.

FWIW, there's a lot of seasoned restaurant owner/investors/operators who don't always have the right answers in all the places they open up, and they have a high failure rate, too ....
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-07-2011, 03:40 PM
 
168 posts, read 323,669 times
Reputation: 138
RestaurantNews.com | Restaurant Industry News and Resources

Restaurant Industry Trends News :: Restaurant News Resource

Foodservice.com: A Community and Social Network for Restaurant Business and Foodservice - News, Food and Beverage, Restaurant Jobs

If your Italian food is spectacular, that's the main thing....you'd be surprised how far passion will get you.....
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-12-2011, 01:35 PM
 
9,816 posts, read 19,021,080 times
Reputation: 7537
Quote:
Originally Posted by ucskibum88 View Post
Thank you guys for the advice, working in the area before hand is indeed a great idea since the needs of the community will be different than other areas where I will work at in the future. I was hoping to have a dual ownership with someone that way we can balance work and family time, because while it is one of my goals to work in this area I don't want to get burned out.

Since it seems that the Italian restaurant market is over saturated, what do you guys think the area needs (if anything at all)? Is the 1.7 million buying price typical everywhere? or just the higher end places? Sorry for all the questions, I am just trying to get an idea of what I'll be walking into in the future. (My college doesn't do a good job preparing us for owning our own business, it is more geared towards securing us higher level management positions in established companies, so I don't know where to really look to obtain the information I need.)

Thank you guys I really appreciate the advice, just trying to make my way in the world doing what I love.

I am also open to change the concept to something more lucrative, I just love cooking Italian food for my friends and family right now (guess I'm too dug into my family roots haha)
I think Sunsprit has some spot on advice about all this.

At your age and experience, i'd say I'd get your education finished and then start working in the industry in a resort area and move up to management. If you can demonstrate over a period of time that you can successfully manage a restaurant in a resort area then that is a start. Even if you have family money being your age, running out and starting a restaurant in a Colorado resort when you don't know anything about it, is like pouring gasoline on that money and setting it on fire.

From what I have seen, many of the restaurants either got started decades ago and have an established track record over time, or they have some special "angle" that draws in customers.

One of my favorite Kitchen Nightmares episodes is "La Parra de Burriana" and it's a good example of what happens with a young, inexperienced guy blowing his dads money on his restaurant in a resort area.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5kKq120gh_A
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-13-2011, 10:32 AM
 
Location: SE Portland, OR
1,167 posts, read 2,142,275 times
Reputation: 620
OP, I think you're having trouble grasping the differences in areas in Colorado. You refer to it as "the area", but Colorado is pretty darn big, and every little ski/resort town is it's own little world.

For the summer, I will comment, you might want to look to places that have a good summer mountain biking area (Winter Park, Copper, Vail, Keystone). I think this is still a summer market that is growing.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-13-2011, 03:08 PM
 
Location: Everywhere and Nowhere
14,131 posts, read 26,255,168 times
Reputation: 6815
Maybe better to open a restaurant not in a resort but in a town nearby. I remember a French guy who opend a really good French restaurant in Dillon in the 80s. He had a really unique setup that made you want to go back. For instance he imported Chamonix deer that grazed out back while you watched them through the windows. He kept rabbits and had a fish tank full of trout from which you could pick your dinner. First thing you got when you sat down was a glass full of straight vodka. After that everything seemed really great. He didn't take credit cards. I believe he did very well as the place was always busy. Not sure if it's still there but it was the kind of place people would go out of their way to patronize. Of all the places in CO I've eaten it was definitely the most memorable.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-13-2011, 03:58 PM
 
10,871 posts, read 41,150,426 times
Reputation: 14014
Quote:
Originally Posted by CAVA1990 View Post
Maybe better to open a restaurant not in a resort but in a town nearby. I remember a French guy who opend a really good French restaurant in Dillon in the 80s. He had a really unique setup that made you want to go back. For instance he imported Chamonix deer that grazed out back while you watched them through the windows. He kept rabbits and had a fish tank full of trout from which you could pick your dinner. First thing you got when you sat down was a glass full of straight vodka. After that everything seemed really great. He didn't take credit cards. I believe he did very well as the place was always busy. Not sure if it's still there but it was the kind of place people would go out of their way to patronize. Of all the places in CO I've eaten it was definitely the most memorable.
This chef had several restaurants throughout Colorado, although at this moment I cannot remember the name of his restaurant in Dillon .... which has long been closed and the building is now another restaurant. Somebody on the forum will no doubt refresh our memories of the name of the place. Busy as it may have been, it apparently wasn't a financial success ....

I recall going to his first restaurant in an out of the way place by Lyons, CO, quite some years ago. He'd been favorably written up in the Post for his cuisine, and it was worth the drive from Denver to visit (which we did several times). But that restaurant folded, and he resurfaced in another place for awhile ... and then in Dillon.

Dillon has a history of several restaurants ... some of them local "landmarks" ... failing to survive within the couple block radius of that restaurant.

My point is that even with what appears to be a busy restaurant in this resort area marketplace, that doesn't mean you're seeing a successful business enterprise.

Another example ... just watching the recent auctions in Denver for back taxes ... Hart's Corner Bar & Grill folded recently with a tax auction. That was one busy place ....
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-13-2011, 08:14 PM
 
168 posts, read 323,669 times
Reputation: 138
No matter what city or state you are in, a restaurant failing is caused by many factors and not just the "money successful" reasons....Long hours, employee turnover, all the fees, partner problems, marital problems, family conflicts, some type of theft, outrageous lease issues, local officials problems - the list is long....Some avoidable and some you just can't forsee and plan for, it's rather unpredictable in that regard.....

There's alot of chefs out there that love the thrill of creating a new restaurant rather than having one for 30 years.....there's some that get a great deal on a location and have a go at that, too.....some purposely start them and get them going so they could sell it or turn it over to someone else they know....not to mention there are food fads just like other fads, and restaurants/chefs aren't immune to chasing some of those sometimes, either.....

So, I'd say that career path is more perilous, in general .....
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-13-2011, 08:25 PM
 
10,871 posts, read 41,150,426 times
Reputation: 14014
Quote:
Originally Posted by naturegirll View Post
No matter what city or state you are in, a restaurant failing is caused by many factors and not just the "money successful" reasons....Long hours, employee turnover, all the fees, partner problems, marital problems, family conflicts, some type of theft, outrageous lease issues, local officials problems - the list is long....Some avoidable and some you just can't forsee and plan for, it's rather unpredictable in that regard.....

There's alot of chefs out there that love the thrill of creating a new restaurant rather than having one for 30 years.....there's some that get a great deal on a location and have a go at that, too.....some purposely start them and get them going so they could sell it or turn it over to someone else they know....not to mention there are food fads just like other fads, and restaurants/chefs aren't immune to chasing some of those sometimes, either.....

So, I'd say that career path is more perilous, in general .....
All well and good as a general description of the hazards of this industry ... and quite applicable to so many others. The restaurant business doesn't have an exclusive on all the pitfalls of family, partnerships, burnout, conflicts, thefts, outrageous lease issues (I've been there, with a 800% increase in a renewal because I was successful at the location and they figured they "had me"), arbitrary new local zoning decisions re landscaping on street frontage ....

But when I see a busy restaurant place closed (and a historic landmark of a business, too), padlocked by the sheriff, and placed up for a tax auction due to unpaid taxes ... that's pretty indicative of a cash flow/profitability problem. Especially in a place that's been in a family for awhile and they've owned the property for years.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:


Options
X
Data:
Loading data...
Based on 2000-2016 data
Loading data...

123
Hide US histogram

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > Colorado
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

2005-2018, Advameg, Inc.

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top