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Old 04-20-2011, 10:10 AM
 
Location: Wherabouts Unknown!
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CO.Native.SW wrote:
On a side note, its strange to see so many Native Americans revere these places in such strange locations. SLV, MESA VERDE, CHACO, CANYON DE CHELLY, all are warm in the summer, and get VERY COLD in the winter and is very uncomfortable. There must be something about those areas for them to revere those places so much.
I believe that these places transmit a special kind of energy, that science in it's current state of development, is simply unable to detect. Yet, somehow, those ancient cultures were aware of this special energy, and wisely passed it on. via word of mouth from generation to generation. I believe we better start listening to their message if we want to avoid the complete destruction of this planet.
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Old 04-20-2011, 10:18 AM
 
Location: Bend, OR
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CosmicWizard View Post
CO.Native.SW wrote:
On a side note, its strange to see so many Native Americans revere these places in such strange locations. SLV, MESA VERDE, CHACO, CANYON DE CHELLY, all are warm in the summer, and get VERY COLD in the winter and is very uncomfortable. There must be something about those areas for them to revere those places so much.
I believe that these places transmit a special kind of energy, that science in it's current state of development, is simply unable to detect. Yet, somehow, those ancient cultures were aware of this special energy, and wisely passed it on. via word of mouth from generation to generation. I believe we better start listening to their message if we want to avoid the complete destruction of this planet.
Well I tried to rep you again Cosmic, but seems I need to spread a little around first! I couldn't have said it better myself. I know the desert in general has a certain energy flow that speaks to me. Maybe it's that message to preserve our past, and honor our Earth. Right about now, I truly miss the SW desert.
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Old 04-20-2011, 10:18 AM
 
Location: CO
2,534 posts, read 5,823,108 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CosmicWizard View Post
CO.Native.SW wrote:
On a side note, its strange to see so many Native Americans revere these places in such strange locations. SLV, MESA VERDE, CHACO, CANYON DE CHELLY, all are warm in the summer, and get VERY COLD in the winter and is very uncomfortable. There must be something about those areas for them to revere those places so much.
I believe that these places transmit a special kind of energy, that science in it's current state of development, is simply unable to detect. Yet, somehow, those ancient cultures were aware of this special energy, and wisely passed it on. via word of mouth from generation to generation. I believe we better start listening to their message if we want to avoid the complete destruction of this planet.
Having spent many magical mystical moments in "such strange locations," I can say without doubt, There *is* something about those areas for them to revere those places so much.
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Old 04-20-2011, 01:33 PM
 
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Wink the Anasazi

It is interesting to visit the various locals where the ancient Anasazi lived. They are so seemingly remote now, isolated, forgotten and quiet. Well, save a few tourists now and then. But still with a sense of something other, and if alone one may feel they still have company.

Part of the mystery and attraction lies in the Anasazi having vanished as quickly. But a glance at the substance of their architecture, of the finely crafted stonework, will convince one that they had no intention of going anywhere. Yet in a moment in geologic time, even as men measure the passage of years, they ceased to inhabit these places.

Much is still not known. Many believe that even as Chaco Canyon may have served as a regional trading center, that its greater significance and real purpose was as a ceremonial site, of spiritual significance. The presence of many circular kivas lends credence to such notions. Moreover its location was never as favorable for human habitation as Mesa Verde to the north, with better access to water, timber, and game. But at one time agriculture would have been more feasible at Chaco.

The mystery from our vantage in time may have been more pedestrian then. Trade, patterns of life began to change. People moved away, and possibly assimilated within or into other tribes. Although there seems no absolute answer. But science does know that in water alone the region is not as verdant as it once was. That the basis for life changed.

Other schools of thought suggest that a changing climate not reason enough alone to account for the dissolution of these societies, that internecine warfare and failures to adapt could have played as strong a role.

Something to ponder if sitting next one of these intricately assembled stone structures as silent remnant. The warmth of hot sun reflected from warmed rock reminds of the physical realities of this planet. If stars overhead, the shadow of moon cast out long from broken stone hulls, then the wonder and mystery as well. Of what once was, surely thought always to be, and but reminder now.
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Old 04-20-2011, 06:10 PM
 
Location: The Big CO
198 posts, read 1,045,223 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by delta07 View Post
Well I tried to rep you again Cosmic, but seems I need to spread a little around first! I couldn't have said it better myself. I know the desert in general has a certain energy flow that speaks to me. Maybe it's that message to preserve our past, and honor our Earth. Right about now, I truly miss the SW desert.
Agreed. Places in desert lands just feel different to me, or even Mesa Verde which isn't technically located on desert lands, feels different. When you walk through those cliff dwellings, it just feels strange to me.

The desert is amazing though, any desert really. I have been to most all desert locations in this country, and they just have a weird atmosphere to them. Whether its the mojave, great basin, sonoran, chihuahuan, colorado plateau desert lands, san luis valley desert lands, or even the desert lands in Pueblo-Canon City-Florence. The desert lands just feel strange, but I love them. I do believe the whole energy theory of your post though. There must be something about Canyon De Chelly, Mesa Verde, Lowry Pueblo Ruins, Chaco Canyon, San Luis Valley that drew them there and made the Anasazi, Ute, Navajo, Apache, Jicarilla Apache, Comanche, Hohokam, Mogollon, and others to the area. I remember learning back in college about how Native tribes like Cheyenne, Kiowa, and Arapaho even visited the san luis valley desert at times and revered. Thats crazy, considering those native groups mainly only hunted in parts of Colorado, and only rarely lived in the far eastern part of CO that borders Nebraska and Kansas (they mainly hunted and warred in eastern CO, while living in other places). There MUST be something about these areas in these SW states.
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Old 04-21-2011, 10:36 AM
 
Location: Bend, OR
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I know what you mean about that weirdness, or different feeling, the desert seems to evoke. For me, I think it's the lack of people, the stillness of the earth, the sense that I'm only a fraction of a much larger picture. However, I don't get that feeling with every desert landscape. Right now, I live in the northwestern extent of the high desert/great basin in Oregon. While I do love going out to the desert here to escape the snow and people, I just don't quite get that same feeling as I do in the SW desert. Maybe because we don't have huge redrock formations where I've been. Or maybe because it's still pretty darn cold, I don't know... but the Anasazi, Navajo, and other native peoples definitely found the magic the Colorado Plateau brings.
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Old 04-21-2011, 04:54 PM
 
Location: The Big CO
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Quote:
Originally Posted by delta07 View Post
I know what you mean about that weirdness, or different feeling, the desert seems to evoke. For me, I think it's the lack of people, the stillness of the earth, the sense that I'm only a fraction of a much larger picture. However, I don't get that feeling with every desert landscape. Right now, I live in the northwestern extent of the high desert/great basin in Oregon. While I do love going out to the desert here to escape the snow and people, I just don't quite get that same feeling as I do in the SW desert. Maybe because we don't have huge redrock formations where I've been. Or maybe because it's still pretty darn cold, I don't know... but the Anasazi, Navajo, and other native peoples definitely found the magic the Colorado Plateau brings.
Do you get that feeling being in the Colorado plateau desert lands or the other CO desert lands??? I feel ya, but it can still can darn cold in Northern Arizona, Northern New Mexico, SW-West-NW Colorado, and Eastern Utah. I'd say the desert lands where I really don't get that feeling is the De Beque Canyon along I-70 from Rifle to Palisade. Although, I still get that feeling somewhat in that small section of Colorado desert land. I must say, I have never been to the great basin desert lands that are in Southern Idaho, so I can't say about that place, but the Red Desert in Wyoming is very peaceful, still, quiet.
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Old 04-22-2011, 02:58 PM
 
Location: Bend, OR
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CO.Native.SW View Post
Do you get that feeling being in the Colorado plateau desert lands or the other CO desert lands??? I feel ya, but it can still can darn cold in Northern Arizona, Northern New Mexico, SW-West-NW Colorado, and Eastern Utah. I'd say the desert lands where I really don't get that feeling is the De Beque Canyon along I-70 from Rifle to Palisade. Although, I still get that feeling somewhat in that small section of Colorado desert land. I must say, I have never been to the great basin desert lands that are in Southern Idaho, so I can't say about that place, but the Red Desert in Wyoming is very peaceful, still, quiet.
Oh yes, I've camped in the Utah canyons during some of those really cold spells! It made it really difficult to wake up, throw on a backpack, and hike in the river all day. That first step was always a doozie!

I do still get a sense of "aloneness" in the other desert environments in Colorado and other locales, although nothing quite like the feeling I get in the red rock desert of the Colorado Plateau. I haven't spent much time in the N.W. Colorado deserts though, so that could also be it. Where is the red desert in WY, I'm not familiar with that one?
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Old 04-23-2011, 04:45 AM
 
Location: Phoenix Arizona
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Originally Posted by CO.Native.SW View Post
Could the San Luis Valley be the heart of center of the greater SW??? its in CO, and a little but in NM, so its the SW states. The large high desert valley was revered by more than 12 native american tribes and used as a sacred hunting, and vision-quest area. However, they would never venture into this valley of desert in the winter, because winter temperatures can drop well into the negatives for days at a time. Why would SO MANY natives revere this place if its so uncomfortable to the human body???

Geographically, the four corners is the heart of the SW in opinion. Its far from all major metro areas in the region like Phoenix, Denver, Salt Lake, Albuquerque, El Paso, and right in the middle of NOWHERE, but right in the heart of the SW states. Culturally (modern) it is probably viewed as Santa Fe or Tucson as the heart of the southwest, even though tucson is in the deep southwest way far south, and Santa Fe is far east in the SW.

However, historically, I think the heart of the SW or center of the SW could be a few places. Mesa Verde, Hovenweep/Canyon of the Ancients, Chaco Canyon, Canyon De Chelly are probably the best bet. They are all situated around the four corners spot, in NE Arizona, NW New Mexico, and SW Colorado, right in the middle of the SW. Overall, I would say Chaco Canyon, because I once learned that was likely used as the major trade point for the Pueblo peoples (CO, AZ, UT, NM).

On a side note, its strange to see so many Native Americans revere these places in such strange locations. SLV, MESA VERDE, CHACO, CANYON DE CHELLY, all are warm in the summer, and get VERY COLD in the winter and is very uncomfortable. There must be something about those areas for them to revere those places so much.
I have to say, as a Southern AZ guy, that 4 corners is way Southwest for what it is but the Southwest isn't just defined by that area. The border desert areas are a different vibe but are no less SW. It's a different kind of SW down here. In the Sonoran we live above the ruins of the Hohokam civilization. Phoenix is so named for being risen from the ashes of Hohokam ruins 1000 years ago. Defining Southwest by Pueblo/Anasazi culture is biased. I love the 4 corners Anasazi area but the Sonoran and Chihuahuan are left out of that.
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Old 04-24-2011, 02:33 PM
 
Location: The Big CO
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Originally Posted by cacto View Post
I have to say, as a Southern AZ guy, that 4 corners is way Southwest for what it is but the Southwest isn't just defined by that area. The border desert areas are a different vibe but are no less SW. It's a different kind of SW down here. In the Sonoran we live above the ruins of the Hohokam civilization. Phoenix is so named for being risen from the ashes of Hohokam ruins 1000 years ago. Defining Southwest by Pueblo/Anasazi culture is biased. I love the 4 corners Anasazi area but the Sonoran and Chihuahuan are left out of that.
Thats very true. I was only sayying in a geogrpahical center of all the SW states, the Four Corners seems like it was right in the center. I love the history of the Hohokam people as well. They seem to take a back seat to the Anasazi for some reason, but I am not sure why. I am just more in touch with the history of the Anasazi and the Ute, seeing as they were mainly the two most popular and known native triebs in Colorado, where I live. People for some reason associate Colorado with the Arapaho, Kiowa, and Cheyenne a lot, even though those native tribes rarely lived in the far eastern reaches of the state near the CO-NE and CO-KS borders. They pretty much mainly came into Colorado to hunt or war with other native tribes, while living in Kansas, Nebraska, Wyoming, etc. It makes ZERO sense. People also do not realize that the Ute lived from central Utah as far into Colorado as the high plains off the mountains, and even a little bit in Northern New Mexico as well. Few people seem to realize that. I just know more of the Anasazi and Ute because they were the two most popular native tribes in CO.

The SW is so large of an area, and has so many different types of terrain. It has the hot deserts, high deserts, alpine mountains, high plains, canyons, mesas, buttes, rivers, etc. I agree that the other native civilations of Hohokam and Mogollon are VERY over looked.
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