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Old 10-22-2007, 03:12 AM
 
10,869 posts, read 41,139,178 times
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In the Vail Valley, the Avon and Edwards areas are among the "pockets" of full time locals ... many people have bought housing in the area, or are very long term renters who have stayed in the area.

You will hear and see a lot of spanish speaking people in the down-valley areas. Don't be too quick to categorize these folks as working poor immigrants ... many of them are very long term residents/homeowners of the area, having lived in the surrounding mountain railroad communities (for example) for generations, or worked the old ranches/farms or mines, or are very affluent people from almost anywhere South of the US border throughout South America.

Colorado has a very long history of hispanic people living throughout the state ... all the way back to large Spanish land grants long pre-dating Colorado statehood. For whatever reasons, many Colorado counties have areas of a strongly hispanic culture remaining, as these folks have clung to their original customs, culture, and language. There's a lot of Colorado where these were the only folks who stayed around for the jobs that were available for many years ... especially in some of Colorado's poorest counties. As property owners, some of them have had the good fortune to find themselves living in places where new growth and expansion has suddenly made them dirt rich after all these years (Minturn comes to mind ...).

IMO, there's a substantial group of "middle class" earners in the surrounding areas of the Vail core of people who have either been there a long time and managed to buy in when it was possible and hang on, or a number of people who have come in with enough money to comfortably buy property. One must keep in mind that while there's a lot of seasonal low paid worker jobs related to the hospitality and tourist business, there's also a good number of higher paying long term jobs ... hotel/restaurant management, retail store or service business techs/managers, hospital/medical jobs, and so forth. There's also a fair number of trades jobs in the area ... although that's cyclical, and can be temporary but very intense at high wages paid ... some folks have stayed around in the trades for a long time, some will be moving on when the current building phases are completed. There's multiple billion dollar construction projects ongoing right now in Lionshead and Vail along with the fairly normal level of remodeling and upgrading of various condo's and hotels all around town.

In the core town of Vail itself ... one will not find many of the middle class because that's where all the glitz and glitter and high dollar attractions are located with a lot of absentee owner 2nd homes. But that's the economic engine that drives the surrounding area .... be it housing, retail, hospitality, service trades, skiing ... a lot of people make their living off of the needs of those 2nd homeowners.
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Old 10-22-2007, 08:35 PM
 
1 posts, read 2,114 times
Reputation: 10
I live in Eagle, not sure if you made it out here on your scouting trip. You get more for your money & it is definitely a family oriented town. Then there is also Gypsum just to the west of us. We are a 20 min drive to Avon / Beaver Creek, that is where dh works. Eagle is great b/c it's typically 10 degrees warmer than the resort areas. there is also everything you need nothing you don't & lots of great parks, ice skating, movies, bowling, etc.

hospitals - there is one in both directions of us in Glenwood Springs & Vail - about 30 min to ea.

I'm not sure the age of your kids - but daycare is hard to come by - waiting lists can be as long as 2 yrs for newborns. preschool age is a little better but still there are long lists.

Avon schools are on a lottery system - some of my friends are concerned about that - some aren't the best - they are also spanish immersion programs. Latest and Greatest from ECS — Eagle County Schools

I remember a ranking website somewhere saying excellent or poor etc. you can do a search.

feel free to pm me w/ other questions...

HTH!
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Old 10-26-2007, 09:56 PM
CTC
 
Location: Pagosa Springs, CO/North Port,FL
661 posts, read 1,154,004 times
Reputation: 572
Quote:
Originally Posted by mydancingangel View Post
Jobs are not an issue, my husband can work from anywhere. Billradio made a very good point about immigrants, which brings up another issue. We did happen to go into the Wal-Mart in Avon and I literally felt as though we were in Mexico. I have nothing at all against other races, but I have to say I was a little shocked. People were basically just destroying the store; they would pick up a shirt or pair of gloves to look at, and then just throw it on the floor; there were piles of discarded things everywhere. It just seemed as though there was no respect at all, and I am just wondering if this carries over into the towns and schools? I am not trying to offend anyone but I think this is an issue that needs consideration. I guess what I am trying to ask is what people think are the issues that come along with so many immigrants in this area particularly.
As for the weather, I know that it is very different from Texas and we are definitely ready for a change.
Also, regarding the point that there is basically no middle class in these types of areas, is that a statement that everyone agrees with? Our situation is fortunate in that we live comfortably, but would not be considered "wealthy" by Vail standards. We have investigated the housing and can afford a decent house in Avon or Edwards (somewhere in the 500-600k range). I am assuming there would be other families like us, but am I way off base?
Wow, so that is what people do in Mexico-throw things on the ground and show lack of respect?

I have been to that Walmart many times and yes it does get crowded with "Mexicans", but that it where they can afford to shop.

If you have an aversion to "Mexicans" you might not like the Vail Valley (they are indeed everywhere) but so are Texans
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Old 10-27-2007, 08:47 AM
 
12 posts, read 66,452 times
Reputation: 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by CTC View Post
Wow, so that is what people do in Mexico-throw things on the ground and show lack of respect?

I have been to that Walmart many times and yes it does get crowded with "Mexicans", but that it where they can afford to shop.

If you have an aversion to "Mexicans" you might not like the Vail Valley (they are indeed everywhere) but so are Texans

No, I didn't say that's what people do in Mexico-I said that I felt like I had stepped into Mexico because there was almost no one around us speaking English, it was just an observation. And yes, people were throwing things on the ground, and I do find that disrespectful both to the store and the other shoppers. I'm not saying they were doing this because of the fact that they are "Mexican" (your description, not mine), just stating a fact. I was wondering whether a certain behavior is the norm in an area or store that if I lived in this area I would probably shop in frequently. It's sad that you can't even ask a question anymore without someone implying that you are being racist.
Thanks to Billradio and Sunspirit and everyone else who made some great points and gave honest replies. I have many wonderful close friends who are in fact from Mexico and I love diversity and learning about other cultures, but I do have to say that I have a problem with people who come here illegaly, anyways that's really not what I wanted this thread to be about...I'm sure there are plenty out there on this subject already....
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Old 10-27-2007, 09:57 AM
 
8,317 posts, read 25,095,377 times
Reputation: 9065
Quote:
Originally Posted by sunsprit View Post
In the Vail Valley, the Avon and Edwards areas are among the "pockets" of full time locals ... many people have bought housing in the area, or are very long term renters who have stayed in the area.

You will hear and see a lot of spanish speaking people in the down-valley areas. Don't be too quick to categorize these folks as working poor immigrants ... many of them are very long term residents/homeowners of the area, having lived in the surrounding mountain railroad communities (for example) for generations, or worked the old ranches/farms or mines, or are very affluent people from almost anywhere South of the US border throughout South America.

Colorado has a very long history of hispanic people living throughout the state ... all the way back to large Spanish land grants long pre-dating Colorado statehood. For whatever reasons, many Colorado counties have areas of a strongly hispanic culture remaining, as these folks have clung to their original customs, culture, and language. There's a lot of Colorado where these were the only folks who stayed around for the jobs that were available for many years ... especially in some of Colorado's poorest counties. As property owners, some of them have had the good fortune to find themselves living in places where new growth and expansion has suddenly made them dirt rich after all these years (Minturn comes to mind ...).

IMO, there's a substantial group of "middle class" earners in the surrounding areas of the Vail core of people who have either been there a long time and managed to buy in when it was possible and hang on, or a number of people who have come in with enough money to comfortably buy property. One must keep in mind that while there's a lot of seasonal low paid worker jobs related to the hospitality and tourist business, there's also a good number of higher paying long term jobs ... hotel/restaurant management, retail store or service business techs/managers, hospital/medical jobs, and so forth. There's also a fair number of trades jobs in the area ... although that's cyclical, and can be temporary but very intense at high wages paid ... some folks have stayed around in the trades for a long time, some will be moving on when the current building phases are completed. There's multiple billion dollar construction projects ongoing right now in Lionshead and Vail along with the fairly normal level of remodeling and upgrading of various condo's and hotels all around town.

In the core town of Vail itself ... one will not find many of the middle class because that's where all the glitz and glitter and high dollar attractions are located with a lot of absentee owner 2nd homes. But that's the economic engine that drives the surrounding area .... be it housing, retail, hospitality, service trades, skiing ... a lot of people make their living off of the needs of those 2nd homeowners.
Though I sometimes disagree with Sunsprit, I do agree with him on part of this. People tend to lump all Hispanics in Colorado together and assume that they all are illegal immigrants. That is not true, though the majority of Hispanics I have seen in the resort areas like those in Eagle and Summit counties ARE recent immigrants. Most people from outside of Colorado do not understand the ethnic mix or heritage of the state. Though it is not a "perfect" geographical/socialogical boundary, I-25 and US Highway 50 make a pretty good line of demarcation. Basically, the areas of Colorado that are both north of Highway 50 and west of I-25 tend to be heavily Anglo. Many (but certainaly not all) of the Hispanic residents of those areas are either recent immigrants or the children and grandchildren of Hispanic immigrants. The resort areas also are getting a lot of Hispanic immigrants to work in the service jobs there.

South of US 50 and west of I-25, many of Colorado's counties are heavily Hispanic, often to 75% or more in the south-central counties (Las Animas, Huerfano, Costilla, Conejos, etc.), and always have been. The Hispanics in these counties can often trace their family roots back to Colorado's territorial days. Many trace their lineage back to New Mexico before this whole region was part of the US. This is also true of some Hispanic areas of the metropolitan areas and the ag areas of northern and eastern Colorado.

Sunsprit makes another good point: Colorado railroads, almost from their inception, employed a large number if Hispanic workers, mostly as laborers in track maintenance. They heavily recruited Hispanic laborers, especially in northern New Mexico and southern Colorado. Those workers (and their families) found there way all over the western railroad systems, and often they formed the nucleus of Hispanic communities in many formerly all-Anglo towns across the West. There are many of them still working for the railroads--often multiple generation employees. (Sunsprit mentions Minturn, one of my favorite railroad towns, until that line was motballed--stupidly in my opinion. I much preferred it as a sleepy railroad town compared to what it is likely to become. Another neat "real" Colorado place lost to the plastic BS of the resort industry. I still think of the Vail Valley as a resort cancer growing on one of Colorado's formerly most beautiful places.)

Interestingly, many of the western railroads now actively recruit and use Navajos from the reservation as a major source of their maintenance forces. One could make an intersting cultural study of how the railroads singlehandedly have influenced the ethnicity and diversity in the Rocky Mountain West--from their inception up to and including today.

Last edited by jazzlover; 10-27-2007 at 10:25 AM..
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Old 10-27-2007, 12:45 PM
 
4 posts, read 8,263 times
Reputation: 10
Default I would not recommend Colorado, especially ski towns

Please see my lenghty reply to the recent post "why do people leave Colorado?" Then do a search with the quote Colorado 'come on vacation, leave on probation' This is a serious problem in my opinion and that of others. The other unofficial state slogan is "have one and leave," meaning have only one alcoholic beverage and go home to drink any further. Even if you have never touched alcohol, read my post to see what can very possibly happen to you here. Best of luck. Go to Montana or some other beautiful state. It is crowded here and the traffic is horrific. Nothing but one shopping and strip mall after another. Second biggest mistake I ever made in my life was moving here.
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Old 10-28-2007, 11:12 PM
CTC
 
Location: Pagosa Springs, CO/North Port,FL
661 posts, read 1,154,004 times
Reputation: 572
Quote:
Originally Posted by mydancingangel View Post
No, I didn't say that's what people do in Mexico-I said that I felt like I had stepped into Mexico because there was almost no one around us speaking English, it was just an observation. And yes, people were throwing things on the ground, and I do find that disrespectful both to the store and the other shoppers. I'm not saying they were doing this because of the fact that they are "Mexican" (your description, not mine), just stating a fact. I was wondering whether a certain behavior is the norm in an area or store that if I lived in this area I would probably shop in frequently. It's sad that you can't even ask a question anymore without someone implying that you are being racist.
Thanks to Billradio and Sunspirit and everyone else who made some great points and gave honest replies. I have many wonderful close friends who are in fact from Mexico and I love diversity and learning about other cultures, but I do have to say that I have a problem with people who come here illegaly, anyways that's really not what I wanted this thread to be about...I'm sure there are plenty out there on this subject already....
Well you did not mention any thing about the lack of English being spoken, you correlated unruly behavior with feeling like you were in Mexico.

Anyway sorry to have made the leap, but that is how your tale of the Wall-Mart in Avon came across.

For the middle class question , many of us live down valley in Eagle/Gypsum (Edwards/Avon is too expensive)..the best thing about Eagle County is free-88% public land..
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Old 10-28-2007, 11:23 PM
CTC
 
Location: Pagosa Springs, CO/North Port,FL
661 posts, read 1,154,004 times
Reputation: 572
Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzlover View Post
Though I sometimes disagree with Sunsprit, I do agree with him on part of this. People tend to lump all Hispanics in Colorado together and assume that they all are illegal immigrants. That is not true, though the majority of Hispanics I have seen in the resort areas like those in Eagle and Summit counties ARE recent immigrants. Most people from outside of Colorado do not understand the ethnic mix or heritage of the state. Though it is not a "perfect" geographical/socialogical boundary, I-25 and US Highway 50 make a pretty good line of demarcation. Basically, the areas of Colorado that are both north of Highway 50 and west of I-25 tend to be heavily Anglo. Many (but certainaly not all) of the Hispanic residents of those areas are either recent immigrants or the children and grandchildren of Hispanic immigrants. The resort areas also are getting a lot of Hispanic immigrants to work in the service jobs there.

South of US 50 and west of I-25, many of Colorado's counties are heavily Hispanic, often to 75% or more in the south-central counties (Las Animas, Huerfano, Costilla, Conejos, etc.), and always have been. The Hispanics in these counties can often trace their family roots back to Colorado's territorial days. Many trace their lineage back to New Mexico before this whole region was part of the US. This is also true of some Hispanic areas of the metropolitan areas and the ag areas of northern and eastern Colorado.

Sunsprit makes another good point: Colorado railroads, almost from their inception, employed a large number if Hispanic workers, mostly as laborers in track maintenance. They heavily recruited Hispanic laborers, especially in northern New Mexico and southern Colorado. Those workers (and their families) found there way all over the western railroad systems, and often they formed the nucleus of Hispanic communities in many formerly all-Anglo towns across the West. There are many of them still working for the railroads--often multiple generation employees. (Sunsprit mentions Minturn, one of my favorite railroad towns, until that line was motballed--stupidly in my opinion. I much preferred it as a sleepy railroad town compared to what it is likely to become. Another neat "real" Colorado place lost to the plastic BS of the resort industry. I still think of the Vail Valley as a resort cancer growing on one of Colorado's formerly most beautiful places.)

Interestingly, many of the western railroads now actively recruit and use Navajos from the reservation as a major source of their maintenance forces. One could make an intersting cultural study of how the railroads singlehandedly have influenced the ethnicity and diversity in the Rocky Mountain West--from their inception up to and including today.
Yes it would be interesting as well to correlate the same with mining towns. many of the old Hispanic families around here came for the mining. The family of a good friend of mine (Sandoval) came here in the 20's for the mining at Gilman-wow that guys grandfather has some fascinating stories. Same thing in Leadville and many more towns. Just because they do not speak English does not mean they cannot.
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