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Old 10-03-2011, 10:12 AM
 
Location: Bend, OR
3,296 posts, read 8,203,496 times
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I think this article fails to recognize that not all online programs are the same. There are some very well designed programs out there that allow children to learn, often in a much better way, than they would in a regular classroom setting. As a former elementary school teacher, I had several students who would have benefited greatly from an online program. The problem often has to do with the home environment, rather than the program itself. The state of education, in general, has failed students, not just the online programs!
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Old 10-03-2011, 10:18 AM
 
Location: Wherabouts Unknown!
7,756 posts, read 16,463,186 times
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pheteroi wrote:
And by the way, cheap does not usually equal good.
Mostly true, as is this....Expensive does not necessarily equal good. Expensive is often a hollow status symbol and/or the result of slick marketing.

Last edited by CosmicWizard; 10-03-2011 at 10:27 AM..
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Old 10-04-2011, 11:03 AM
 
Location: Colorado Springs
18,957 posts, read 8,893,958 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bideshi View Post
In the US, expensive doesn't necessarily mean good. Especially education and health care.
Oh, I quite agree with you.

When I was young I had a very wise uncle who would always say, "Don't buy the most expensive 'x', but don't buy the cheapest, either. Find the middle ground."

Here's where I'm coming from:

The school where I was principal was built in 1960. The interior was painting cinder block. Floors were terrazzo in the hallways, but asbestos tile in the classrooms. Plumbing was the cheapest available, and we suffered the result of that. Ceiling tiles were the cheapest available. Student and teacher furniture were the cheapest that could be bought. When I arrived there around 1980, the building had no air conditioning. And when they finally did install air conditioning, I had parents who worked in fancy office building complaining about all the luxury in our school. Neither our little theater or our cafeteria could hold the student body for an assembly, and I doubted the safety of the little theater. The roof leaked anytime there was a sustained rain or snow storm, which often resulted in damage to things in the building. The electrical room could not be entered from within the school building, which became quite a problem after 9/11 when officials asked which staff member would go outside to enter the electrical room and shut down the air exchange system in the midst of a chemical or biological attack in the D.C. area. I could go on.

Now, shift to when I was in a car accident in the mid-1980s. Twice I was sued and had to go to the county court house. Marble, granite, mahogany, solid oak, leather-bound chairs for the judges, plush carpeting throughout, chandeliers (instead of the glare of fluorescent), multiple elevators throughout the building, textured ceilings, etc.

We say our kids are the most important things in our culture. But we don't act as if that is true. Adults almost always get more perks than our children.

Schools don't need to be plush. But we don't usually get our money's worth from having to buy and hire the lowest price.
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Old 10-04-2011, 12:41 PM
 
20,315 posts, read 37,826,095 times
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Phetaroi is right on the money. I saw the same when I worked for the Army. We had to beware of low bidders, there was almost always a scam somewhere in those low bids. We wrote language into our bids that allowed us to ignore low bids by weighing many other factors other than low cost. We usually ended up in the mid range with firms who had a good track record for performance.

I had a barroom pal once who was a construction manager for a very large firm in the DC area. They built Federal courthouses and other such expensive things. He told us about building a Federal courthouse in the area of Alexandria, VA. He told us how each and every one of the Federal judges who were to hold court in that building had near TOTAL say of the fit and finish of their courtrooms and chambers. No expense could be spared; the best woods (mahogany, of course) and the finest of everything. Frigging palaces. On our dime. Meanwhile, local kids got really crappy stuff, especially in the DC public schools which were a disgrace to any civilized nation.
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Old 10-04-2011, 01:04 PM
 
Location: Wherabouts Unknown!
7,756 posts, read 16,463,186 times
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phetaroi wrote:
When I was young I had a very wise uncle who would always say, "Don't buy the most expensive 'x', but don't buy the cheapest, either. Find the middle ground."
Finding the middle ground is a good approach to most aspects of life.

I was a HS senior during the Viet Nam fiasco. I lucked out in having a health teacher who had been in the Marine Corps, so this guy knew a thing or two about the military. One day he just plain out leveled with the guys in the class, saying something along this line of thought. You're all going to be facing the draft shortly and some of you are going to end up in the military. If you remember nothing else from this class, remember this. It will make your time in the military alot easier. Don't bring attention to yourself. Be invisible. Don't go to the front of the pack. Don't go to the back of the pack. As much as possible, stay in the middle. This was the best advice anyone ever gave me.
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Old 10-04-2011, 02:21 PM
 
Location: OKLAHOMA
1,778 posts, read 3,482,205 times
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Living remote oversees, I homeschooled my daughters with an on line program that was wonderful. In college (OSU and OBU) several of my daughters classes were on line. Cost were down on those classes which was wonderful for me. I see no problem. My daughter the RN took many and still takes on line classes. Obviously, her clinicals could not be but quite a few the basic college classes were.
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Old 10-04-2011, 04:13 PM
 
Location: Colorado Springs
18,957 posts, read 8,893,958 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by debbie at bouontiful View Post
Living remote oversees, I homeschooled my daughters with an on line program that was wonderful. In college (OSU and OBU) several of my daughters classes were on line. Cost were down on those classes which was wonderful for me. I see no problem. My daughter the RN took many and still takes on line classes. Obviously, her clinicals could not be but quite a few the basic college classes were.
Here's why I'm generally opposed to online education. Although let me say, some is okay. I took an online course myself, and really liked it.

But a few years ago we took our faculty (during inservice week) to our business partner's headquarters. Booz Allen Hamilton. A huge consulting firm for the government. One of the teachers asked the CEO what the corporation looked for in hiring people. Answer: "People who can work with others in a group situation. We don't want geniuses who sit at a computer by themselves."
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Old 10-04-2011, 04:27 PM
 
Location: CO
2,534 posts, read 5,821,494 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phetaroi View Post
Here's why I'm generally opposed to online education. Although let me say, some is okay. I took an online course myself, and really liked it.

But a few years ago we took our faculty (during inservice week) to our business partner's headquarters. Booz Allen Hamilton. A huge consulting firm for the government. One of the teachers asked the CEO what the corporation looked for in hiring people. Answer: "People who can work with others in a group situation. We don't want geniuses who sit at a computer by themselves."
All so true - Booz Hamilton doesn't want to hire geniuses who sit at a computer by themselves.

But - where would our society be without those geniuses throughout history who were not team players?

Online education, the development of computers, has perhaps given more of the "non-team-players," the formerly marginalized, unless they had strong supporters or were themselves able to fight their own battles, and valued education, more opportunities.

One should not replace the other, but online education can surely offer education to students who might otherwise be lost.

I'm all for supporting additive education. Let's not take away from traditional education, but let's not deny that online education might reach students who would otherwise be lost.
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Old 10-05-2011, 09:52 AM
 
Location: Bend, OR
3,296 posts, read 8,203,496 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by suzco View Post
All so true - Booz Hamilton doesn't want to hire geniuses who sit at a computer by themselves.

But - where would our society be without those geniuses throughout history who were not team players?

Online education, the development of computers, has perhaps given more of the "non-team-players," the formerly marginalized, unless they had strong supporters or were themselves able to fight their own battles, and valued education, more opportunities.

One should not replace the other, but online education can surely offer education to students who might otherwise be lost.

I'm all for supporting additive education. Let's not take away from traditional education, but let's not deny that online education might reach students who would otherwise be lost.
I couldn't agree with you more! While a huge majority of the population fits into a traditional educational setting, there are kids who just don't. Not everyone is a social person, and sending those extremely introverted kids to public school is very hard, if not detrimental to them. Most of us can learn to socialize, or get by, but some simply cannot. In talking with one of my student's parents during conferences, she said all of his older siblings ended up dropping out by their junior year of high school because they just couldn't do the classroom anymore. If online learning had been an option for them, it might have made a difference.
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Old 10-05-2011, 10:06 AM
 
Location: Wherabouts Unknown!
7,756 posts, read 16,463,186 times
Reputation: 9292
The problem with classromm learning is that just about ALWAYS, the class is comprised of students not only having different learning styles, but also different paces of learning. Looking back to my student days in a classroom, my own style and pace was just about ALWAYS a mis-match with the teachers pace and teaching style. Additionally, alot of the class content was content that I had no interest in.

The beauty of online learning, for me anyway is that I can CHOOSE the classes I want to take. In addition, the presentation style more closely matches my learning style. I can go at my own pace and not at a pace that is fostered on me by the teacher, having to meet some standard imposed on them by an office bound administrator, having a standard imposed on them by a politician in Washington.
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