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If there is a common thread among illicit drug users, it is usually that they are self-indulgent jerks who think only of themselves and the hell with what their "habit" does to anyone else--directly or indirectly.
And if there is a common thread among lemmings, it is usually that they attempt to impose their will on everyone else.
CosmicWizard, I admitted "better" is subjective. But that being the case, to the extent you are still in control of your own mind (not a "sheep", to put it one way?), you can come to believe either choice is superior. Why not choose one that makes you physically active rather than lazy, costs less, and doesn't put you in jail?
As noted in my post ( #167 ), I have developed a lifelong habit of being VERY physically active. Most people half my age ( 62 ) are challanged to keep up with me in the gym or on the trail. To me. I've grown out of the either-or mentality. I choose to engage in both physical activity and the enjoyment of an ocassional toke. Contrary to what you might have been trained to believe, they're not mutually exclusive.
Just because toxic pharmaceuticals are legal does not make them good. Just because something like MJ is declared illegal does not make it bad. There are times when CIVIL DIS-OBEDIENCE is called for.[indent]Individuals should not permit governments to overrule or atrophy their consciences, and that they have a duty to avoid allowing such acquiescence to enable the government to make them the agents of injustice.....Henry David Thoreau
The only obligation which I have a right to assume is to do at any time what I think right... Law never made men a whit more just; and, by means of their respect for it, even the well-disposed are daily made the agents of injustice.....Henry David Thoreau
You beat me to it Cosmic, I was going to say essentially the same thing. Again, I'll state, that prescription drugs, IMO, are far worse and more deadly than a little MJ.
Typical of you to refer to those who disagree with your views as "morons" or "criminals" or "jerks" ... which means our fathers and grandfathers were all of these things for drinking during prohibition, and most of them did just that, and found alcohol as readily available on every block just as MJ is available today on every block.
The real jerks and morons back then were the ones who shoved prohibition down the nation's throat, a bunch of bible-thumping ninnies who thought they were doing the "christian" thing, i.e., I'm referring to the Woman's Christian Temperance Union, a bunch of morons and jerks if ever was.... Now we have the government telling us MJ is bad, and even though I've never touched it or any other substance, my opinion is to make it fully legal and tax the hell out of it as we do for tobacco and alcohol. I've alcoholics in the extended family, and I've a B-I-L now in hospice at a V-A hospital as he dies of lung cancer....from smoking....yet people want to keep on insisting that MJ / MMJ is bad for them....bah humbug!
Down the road we can also legalize the world's oldest profession, regulate it, and tax the hell out of it too...but we'll save that topic for a thread in P&OC. It's time we got the "moral" ones the hell out of everyone's private lives and bedrooms.
We can all debate what should be legal and what shouldn't be, but the fact is that marijuana still illegal under federal law--laws enacted by a majority of our elected representatives and signed into law by a duly elected President.
Whatever one thinks about Prohibition, those who drank illegally during Prohibition helped nurture and support a huge organized criminal network--elements of which continue to exist today. In that sense, the people who drank illegally back then WERE jerks and morons, and we still suffer from them letting their own selfish desires support a whole network of very unsavory criminals.
If people want to make marijuana legal, then let them convince a majority in Congress to legalize it and elect a President who will sign the legislation into law. Of course, that would be way too difficult for the lazy sots who pine for legalized drugs to do. They would much rather just flaunt the law, support their criminal drug dealer connections, and b**ch about how unjust a representative democracy is when it won't bend the way that they want it to.
Big Pharma brother has your best interests always and in no way should they ever be viewed as legal drug dealers with alternative motivations. I mean if you read it on an federally approved drug label it's just gotta be safe.
Typical of you to refer to those who disagree with your views as "morons" or "criminals" or "jerks" ... which means our fathers and grandfathers were all of these things for drinking during prohibition, and most of them did just that, and found alcohol as readily available on every block just as MJ is available today on every block.
The real jerks and morons back then were the ones who shoved prohibition down the nation's throat, a bunch of bible-thumping ninnies who thought they were doing the "christian" thing, i.e., I'm referring to the Woman's Christian Temperance Union, a bunch of morons and jerks if ever was.... Now we have the government telling us MJ is bad, and even though I've never touched it or any other substance, my opinion is to make it fully legal and tax the hell out of it as we do for tobacco and alcohol. I've alcoholics in the extended family, and I've a B-I-L now in hospice at a V-A hospital as he dies of lung cancer....from smoking....yet people want to keep on insisting that MJ / MMJ is bad for them....bah humbug!
Down the road we can also legalize the world's oldest profession, regulate it, and tax the hell out of it too...but we'll save that topic for a thread in P&OC. It's time we got the "moral" ones the hell out of everyone's private lives and bedrooms.
I couldn't agree with you more Mike! The road to legalization was on it's way in California until it was voted down. And, guess who were the major opposers of this bill? The residents of Humbolt Co., which produces a major amount of the marijuana within the US. Why did they oppose it? Simple. They knew they would be out of business. They would be taxed to death, major tobacco companies were buying up land in the county, and their niche industry (although illegal) would be gone. The government would take over and push the small man out.
But, I agree, we should legalize it. Tax it. Make money off of it.
Big Pharma brother has your best interests always and in no way should they ever be viewed as legal drug dealers with alternative motivations. I mean if you read it on an federally approved drug label it's just gotta be safe.
Yeah they wouldn't fool around with something so serious. Patient/customer well-being is ALWAYS priority #1 with Big Pharma and the gubmit takes them at their word. ( Their word: Eliminate ALL of our competition! Make vitamins and back yard gardens illegal, get EVERYONE addicted to our chemical laced medicines and our genetically engineered food. It's good for OUR business!)
CosmicWizard, well put. Still, I'd rather maintain my ability to snap out of laziness in the moment (such as when you've enjoyed a toke) than have something else control my level of motivation. Even for an instant. Purely my own preference. But the point is that using marijuana has a TENDENCY in general to zap motivation, increase the wrong sort of hunger, empty a wallet on something consumed that isn't food or drink, etc. AT LEAST moreso than not using marijuana.
It's just not worth the subjectively defined "superior high", in my book.
We can all debate what should be legal and what shouldn't be, but the fact is that marijuana still illegal under federal law--laws enacted by a majority of our elected representatives and signed into law by a duly elected President.
Whatever one thinks about Prohibition, those who drank illegally during Prohibition helped nurture and support a huge organized criminal network--elements of which continue to exist today. In that sense, the people who drank illegally back then WERE jerks and morons, and we still suffer from them letting their own selfish desires support a whole network of very unsavory criminals.
If people want to make marijuana legal, then let them convince a majority in Congress to legalize it and elect a President who will sign the legislation into law. Of course, that would be way too difficult for the lazy sots who pine for legalized drugs to do. They would much rather just flaunt the law, support their criminal drug dealer connections, and b**ch about how unjust a representative democracy is when it won't bend the way that they want it to.
I can't count how many times petition takers (in Colorado and other states) have pressed hard to get signatures to put Marijuana legalization on ballots or put it in front of the U.S. Congress. In many cases, it's the issue that has turned out several people I know to go to the ballot box. The stereotype of pot users is exactly that...a stereotype. There are absolutely lazy, perpetually stoned potheads out there, just as there are lazy drunks, deadbeat dads and people sitting in front of their computers all day instead of doing something with their lives, BUT there are also many people that function just fine with pot or alcohol, many dads declared deadbeats that are anything but (one of my former bosses was willing to risk everything with his studio to make sure that he could be there for his kid and make sure she was taken care of financially, but the deadbeat MOM had other ideas), and people that are entirely productive or even happy in front of their computers.
More importantly, I think we should always remember that what is LEGAL is not necessarily what is RIGHT. If we followed the train of thought that always put legality above morality then we would have to condemn democracy demonstrations in the Middle East, support human rights abuses in Asia and insist that people obey regardless of their beliefs in a theocracy. What is LEGAL is not necessarily what is MORAL.
The notion that criminal enterprise in pursuit of pot (or in prohibition, Alcohol) is what hurts the people at large suggests that in countries where speech is not free, agitators are hurting "the state" and thus "the people" and are therefore jerks and morons tacitly supporting the acts of a whole network of unsavory criminals. This is a specious argument at best.
The Revolutionary War that eventually led to our independence from Britain and then to our Constitution (giving us the right to free speech and to bear arms) was effectively illegal...but it was the right thing to do. Sometimes the system is so broken that change from inside is impossible...and external forces are required to change it from the outside.
CosmicWizard, well put. Still, I'd rather maintain my ability to snap out of laziness in the moment (such as when you've enjoyed a toke) than have something else control my level of motivation. Even for an instant. Purely my own preference. But the point is that using marijuana has a TENDENCY in general to zap motivation, increase the wrong sort of hunger, empty a wallet on something consumed that isn't food or drink, etc. AT LEAST moreso than not using marijuana.
It's just not worth the subjectively defined "superior high", in my book.
I don't think it matters if it's a "superior high" for you, though. I disapprove of telling you what food to eat. I disapprove of telling you what religion you should follow. I disapprove of telling you which car to buy or which insurance to get because frankly those choices are not affecting the rest of us.
If those choices DO affect the rest of us then it's a discussion we need to have, but what someone does with their own body is not my business so long as no-one else is getting hurt by it. Once we take that road then we might as well open up the big brother clause and ban unhealthy food.
Meanwhile, Tobacco is LEGAL but proven harmful. Still, I'm not going to tell my friend to stop smoking in his home, though I might ask him not to do it in my car.
Last edited by zenkonami; 12-20-2011 at 01:45 PM..
Reason: Spelling
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