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View Poll Results: Should Colorado Legalize Marijuana?
Yes 164 76.64%
No. 50 23.36%
Voters: 214. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 12-20-2011, 12:54 PM
 
Location: Atlanta Metro
129 posts, read 177,428 times
Reputation: 129

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Quote:
Originally Posted by VenusAllen View Post
If there is a common thread among illicit drug users, it is usually that they are self-indulgent jerks who think only of themselves and the hell with what their "habit" does to anyone else--directly or indirectly.

And if there is a common thread among lemmings, it is usually that they attempt to impose their will on everyone else.
So true, and here's someone who agrees:
"The best political, social and spiritual work we can do is to withdraw the projection of our shadow onto others. . . . Carl Jung
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Old 12-20-2011, 01:11 PM
 
8,317 posts, read 25,099,702 times
Reputation: 9065
Quote:
Originally Posted by VenusAllen View Post
And if there is a common thread among lemmings, it is usually that they attempt to impose their will on everyone else.
Listen, I'm not trying to impose MY will on anybody. We collectively decided, through our elected representatives, that marijuana should be illegal on the federal level. Period. People need a lesson on what "freedom" means in this country. It does NOT mean, "Do whatever you g*****m well please, whether it is legal or not." It means you can do what you want as long as it is legal, and you have the right, through the representative democratic process, to have a say in what is legal and what is not. However smart you may think you are, you sure as hell would flunk civics, if, in fact, you even know what the word means. Ignorance of law and civics is a truly dangerous thing, as Thomas Jefferson noted:

Quote:
"If A Nation expects to be ignorant and free, in a state of civilization, it expects what never was and never will be" - Thomas Jefferson.
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Old 12-20-2011, 01:20 PM
 
Location: TX
6,009 posts, read 4,945,550 times
Reputation: 2585
I gotcha, zenk. Some care, some share, and some don't even dare. That's your own value, that we shouldn't open our mouths to advise another uninvited. Mine's different, so what?

I happen to believe everything is everyone's business because any one thing can suddenly affect any of us. I recognize that one individual's actions behind closed doors affect their own emotions, beliefs, mental and physical health; but then this same individual frequents the society in which I live, bringing with them the problems of their emotions, beliefs, mental and physical health.

What a person does to themselves can stay hidden; the effects from what they do to themselves cannot.
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Old 12-20-2011, 01:54 PM
 
Location: Denver, CO
1,627 posts, read 3,619,497 times
Reputation: 1777
Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzlover View Post
Listen, I'm not trying to impose MY will on anybody. We collectively decided, through our elected representatives, that marijuana should be illegal on the federal level. Period. People need a lesson on what "freedom" means in this country. It does NOT mean, "Do whatever you g*****m well please, whether it is legal or not." It means you can do what you want as long as it is legal, and you have the right, through the representative democratic process, to have a say in what is legal and what is not. However smart you may think you are, you sure as hell would flunk civics, if, in fact, you even know what the word means. Ignorance of law and civics is a truly dangerous thing, as Thomas Jefferson noted:
I don't want steer the thread off course, but what happens if the process isn't working? After all, most of my current representatives didn't decide marijuana should be illegal on the federal level...some representatives well before them did. And what of the constant lobbying that now rules the system...we vote people into office, but they decide based on lobbyists and donors...not the will of the people that elected them?

I think this is the crux of what's going on in the country as a whole right now, and certainly the crux of this debate. MJ was set to Schedule 1 for one reason or another, but the proclaimed reasons aren't holding up in society.

I understand and appreciate the value of law, but once the system functions in name only then I think we have to look toward how else we can change the law. If we can iron out the real repercussions as a society then perhaps we can determine how next to proceed and satisfy the legal system. Discussions such as this one are at least a healthy start.
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Old 12-20-2011, 02:24 PM
 
Location: Wherabouts Unknown!
7,754 posts, read 16,452,867 times
Reputation: 9287
Well said Zenk. I wrote a sarcastic post in response to jazzlovers quote above, then thought better of it and deleted it. You said it very clearly in the line below:
we vote people into office, but they decide based on lobbyists and donors...not the will of the people that elected them?
In a sense it is the will of the people.......a very few people with tons of money who control the special interests that are beneffitting from keeping MJ illegal and/or eliminating any and all competion to their enterprises. It's all about money and controlling the people.
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Old 12-20-2011, 03:08 PM
 
1,051 posts, read 1,575,925 times
Reputation: 1883
Quote:
Originally Posted by CosmicWizard View Post
In a sense it is the will of the people.......a very few people with tons of money who control the special interests that are beneffitting from keeping MJ illegal and/or eliminating any and all competion to their enterprises. It's all about money and controlling the people.
Exactly, currently, it is big pharma, big tobacco, alcohol, and the private prison/ law enforcement industries who lobby for tougher penalties & more funding for law enforcement to ensure continuation of their gravy train.

In the late 30's, it was Randolph Hearst who wanted no competition from hemp against the forest industry he owned. It was the Duponts who didn't want any competition from hemp against the petrochemical industry they had started to build. It was also Harry Anslinger & his alcohol prohibition army who needed to preserve their livelihoods after prohibition ended.

In every case, they depend upon high pitched constant campaigns of misinformation & demonization of the substances & users to create public perceptions of evil to justify their continued prosecution of this sham war. Demagoguery of the highest order to say the least. Sad to say, it's been effective because so many people trust the government and swallow what they spout hook, line, & sinker. Knowing what we all know today, how can anyone trust their government so implicitly? There are entire industries who profit from and are based upon continued prosecution of the drug war who squeal like pigs when anything endangers their position at the feed trough.

Fortunately, organizations like Law Enforcement Against Prohibition LEAP | Law Enforcement Against Prohibition who are crying out against this corruption. They've been on the front lines & see the damage caused to society by this "holy" war. Sadly, still employed LE representatives are unable to voice their honest opinions about this horrible crusade because they then become unemployed LE representatives because they dare to speak out against the atrocities they see & experience every day.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/12/03/us...pagewanted=all

Apparently the powerful monied interests ensure that nobody will endanger their profits, first amendment be damned.
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Old 12-20-2011, 03:41 PM
 
2,665 posts, read 2,104,640 times
Reputation: 1471
Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzlover View Post
It gives me no comfort to know that people working in responsible positions buy illicit drugs from criminals to use in their free time. I have to wonder what kind of ethics they have in their workplace if they can justify engaging in illegal activities when they are not working. Probably not very good ethics. I find it very strange that those who buy illegal marijuana can say with a straight face that their drug-dealing "connections" are somehow different than those who deal meth, cocaine, heroin, or other dangerous drugs. They're not. They are all slimeballs selling an illegal substance for profit. And they exist because fools like you financially support them.
It gives me no comfort to know that people working in responsible positions incite insurrection against King George in their free time.

Fixed it for you.

And PS... The slimeballs only exist because of prohibition of in demand substances. You cannot materially effect that demand by banning them, as the demand is inherent to the human condition. You would think we would've learned our lesson, but I guess not. The slimeballs would be out of business overnight were prohibition to come to an end.

Or do you have violent shootouts between Grey Goose and Absolut where you live?
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Old 12-20-2011, 03:51 PM
 
2,665 posts, read 2,104,640 times
Reputation: 1471
Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzlover View Post
We collectively decided, through our elected representatives, that marijuana should be illegal on the federal level. Period.
And I maintain that is not a power granted to them by the constitution. If they needed an amendment to ban booze, they need one to ban pot, and they haven't passed one.

Quote:
People need a lesson on what "freedom" means in this country. It does NOT mean, "Do whatever you g*****m well please, whether it is legal or not."
And sheep need a lesson on constitutionally limited government. The fed gov has only the right to regulate, or ban, at its discretion, the interstate commerce of any given substance. They lack any authority over intrastate production and consumption.

And while we're at it, I'd note that passing laws that are routinely ignored by the citizenry, and selectively enforced, if that, by law enforcement engender an overall disrespect for the law in general.

Last edited by DentalFloss; 12-20-2011 at 04:09 PM..
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Old 12-20-2011, 04:06 PM
 
Location: Atlanta Metro
129 posts, read 177,428 times
Reputation: 129
Quote:
Originally Posted by DentalFloss View Post
And I maintain that is not a power granted to them by the constitution. If they needed an amendment to ban booze, they need one to ban pot, and they haven't passed one.

And sheep need a lesson on constitutionally limited government. The fed gov has only the right to regulate, or ban, at its discretion, the interstate commerce of any given substance. They lack any authority over interstate production and consumption.

And while we're at it, I'd note that passing laws that are routinely ignored by the citizenry, and selectively enforced, if that, by law enforcement engender an overall disrespect for the law in general.
"Prohibition goes beyond the bounds of reason in that it attempts to control a man's appetite by legislation and makes a crime out of things that are not crimes. A prohibition law strikes a blow at the very principles upon which our government was founded." -Abraham Lincoln
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Old 12-20-2011, 04:55 PM
 
8,317 posts, read 25,099,702 times
Reputation: 9065
Quote:
Originally Posted by zenkonami View Post
I don't want steer the thread off course, but what happens if the process isn't working? After all, most of my current representatives didn't decide marijuana should be illegal on the federal level...some representatives well before them did. And what of the constant lobbying that now rules the system...we vote people into office, but they decide based on lobbyists and donors...not the will of the people that elected them?

I think this is the crux of what's going on in the country as a whole right now, and certainly the crux of this debate. MJ was set to Schedule 1 for one reason or another, but the proclaimed reasons aren't holding up in society.

I understand and appreciate the value of law, but once the system functions in name only then I think we have to look toward how else we can change the law. If we can iron out the real repercussions as a society then perhaps we can determine how next to proceed and satisfy the legal system. Discussions such as this one are at least a healthy start.
Representative democracy only functions as well or as poorly as the electorate allows it to. The problem in modern America is that a) most Americans have no real clue (thanks to poor education about it) of how our governmental system is actually supposed to work; b) they are so apathetic that they don't care as long as they are materially comfortable; c) they have grown accustomed to following off any "leader" that will promise them an entitlement; d) they fail to understand that with any freedom comes responsibility; and--maybe most importantly--they fail to recognize that they can have an impact on governmental policy if they just get off of their asses and get involved. On that latter point, I'm just one guy, one citizen, but I personally have influenced the making of state law. Language that I wrote is now in state statutes. How did I do that?--by caring enough to make it happen. And, no, I didn't do it by buying it with campaign contributions or other such nonsense, I just worked at it. If I can make a difference, then anybody else with some motivation and tenacity should be able to make a difference, too.

People don't realize what a gift the founding fathers gave us with our representative democracy. Unfortunately, apathy is the quickest way to lose that gift, and we are plenty apathetic in this country these days. Governance dictated by special interests or by least common denominator only happens when people collectively don't give a s*** and allow it to happen.

As all of that relates to marijuana--if the people in favor of legalization are so damned "het up" about it, then let them go to work to get 50% +1 of the US Congress to pass a bill to legalize it, then get the President to sign it. Until then, S**U.
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