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View Poll Results: Should Colorado Legalize Marijuana?
Yes 164 76.64%
No. 50 23.36%
Voters: 214. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 12-13-2011, 01:22 AM
 
Location: Santa Ana, CA
298 posts, read 326,446 times
Reputation: 223

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Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzlover View Post
Know what?--I don't need to smoke pot or use any other illegal drug to feel good, or to feel good about myself, or to "be cool." I do have a alcoholic beverage on occasion, but I can go months without that and not miss it. If alcohol was illegal, no sweat to me--I don't need alcohol to be happy.

I've also worked in jobs that any use of a federally illegal drug (including marijuana) would disqualify a person for hire, or lead to immediate termination if a drug test was positive. So, all you druggies out there can toke up all you want--it's nice to know that you won't be competing with me for a job in my professions.

As for the "there are successful people who use illegal drugs"--that's absolutely true. Wonderful artists, musicians, etc., for sure. One has to wonder how much MORE successful many of them might have been (or how much longer that they might have lived) had they not used drugs.

I do also think it interesting that potheads continually state that marijuana smoking is not harmful when study after study shows the marijuana smoking can cause chronic emphysema just like cigarette smoking can. Watching someone die from emphysema is about as horrific as it gets, whether it's from tobacco, or "safe" marijuana.

One final note: alcohol prohibition failed for the same reason that today's drug war is failing--there was insufficient political will to bust and incarcerate the users. If illicit drug users were subject to 3-5 years in the correction system (maybe making small rocks out of big rocks), there wouldn't be very many illicit drug users. Nor would the prisons be full--word gets around in society pretty fast that "quality" time in the penal system is not a fun way to spend part of one's life. Deterrence works. For drug dealers, life without parole, or--better yet--the death penalty, would do plenty to overcome the lust for profit that dominates today's drug distribution system.
So we should be a police state like some of the middle east countries? Great idea!
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Old 12-13-2011, 04:45 AM
 
Location: Atlanta Metro
129 posts, read 178,169 times
Reputation: 129
Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzlover View Post
Know what?--I don't need to smoke pot or use any other illegal drug to feel good, or to feel good about myself, or to "be cool." I do have a alcoholic beverage on occasion, but I can go months without that and not miss it. If alcohol was illegal, no sweat to me--I don't need alcohol to be happy.

I've also worked in jobs that any use of a federally illegal drug (including marijuana) would disqualify a person for hire, or lead to immediate termination if a drug test was positive. So, all you druggies out there can toke up all you want--it's nice to know that you won't be competing with me for a job in my professions.

As for the "there are successful people who use illegal drugs"--that's absolutely true. Wonderful artists, musicians, etc., for sure. One has to wonder how much MORE successful many of them might have been (or how much longer that they might have lived) had they not used drugs.

I do also think it interesting that potheads continually state that marijuana smoking is not harmful when study after study shows the marijuana smoking can cause chronic emphysema just like cigarette smoking can. Watching someone die from emphysema is about as horrific as it gets, whether it's from tobacco, or "safe" marijuana.
Maybe you need to get out more, or do better research, but as a lifetime pro musician, I can say that I know far more lawyers, doctors, successful businessmen, and high-profile ceos & politicians who smoke more pot, than 90% of my fellow musicians. Most of them have been smoking it since high school, and are now around 60, in fine health...


Quote:
One final note: alcohol prohibition failed for the same reason that today's drug war is failing--there was insufficient political will to bust and incarcerate the users. If illicit drug users were subject to 3-5 years in the correction system (maybe making small rocks out of big rocks), there wouldn't be very many illicit drug users. Nor would the prisons be full--word gets around in society pretty fast that "quality" time in the penal system is not a fun way to spend part of one's life. Deterrence works. For drug dealers, life without parole, or--better yet--the death penalty, would do plenty to overcome the lust for profit that dominates today's drug distribution system.
This is absolutely false! Putting millions of non-violent drug users in prisons has done more harm than good, as was true during Prohibition. If you'd like to know the real reasons Prohibition was such an abject failure, try this:
"Alcohol Prohibition Was a Failure" a report by the (hardly hippies) Cato Institute
Alcohol Prohibition Was a Failure | Mark Thornton | Cato Institute: Policy Analysis

To see a completely factual & concise essay on why our current "war on drugs" is a mess & needs to be ended:
"The War on Drugs is Lost" - William F. Buckley, Jr. (no hippie) in The National Review
The War on Drugs is Lost

Even arch-conservative, former Ga. congressman Bob Barr says it's time to end it:
| The Barr Code

Finally, an organization of thousands of law enforcement officers, DAs, Judges, & others, those on the "front lines" of this failed "war on drugs", LEAP: Law Enforcement Against Prohibition, have an entire website full of informative articles, studies, videos, etc. all full of overwhelming evidence this needs to end:
LEAP | Law Enforcement Against Prohibition
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Old 12-13-2011, 09:49 AM
 
8,317 posts, read 25,196,081 times
Reputation: 9067
Quote:
Originally Posted by dank View Post
So we should be a police state like some of the middle east countries? Great idea!
Typical "straw-man" argument. I'm fully in favor of personal freedom UNTIL it infringes on the freedoms of someone else. As the saying goes, "Your right to swing your fist ends at the end of my nose." People love to think that their illicit drug use, including marijuana, does not affect other people. That's false. Just like alcohol, it can and does destroy families, frequently compromises safety in the workplace, costs taxpayers untold millions (billions) of dollars in rehabilitation and health care costs, and so on. Those costs would likely expand, not contract, if marijuana or other illicit drugs were legalized. If I thought that people could be responsible enough to use marijuana safely and not engage in activities that endanger others while they are impaired, I might be inclined to support its legalization--but the national experience with alcohol clearly demonstrates that far too many people lack that self-restraint. And, unfortunately, far too many people who turn to chemicals--drugs and alcohol--to make themselves feel good are the people who are especially lacking in that level of self-control. I've been around both drunks and "stoners"--and my opinion is that impaired is impaired in either case. They are a safety hazard both in the workplace and on the roads.

I will agree that the current "war on drugs," both nationally and in Colorado, has been a failure. It has been a failure because merely attempting to curb the supply of drugs only drives the price up and makes the potential profits from drug dealing high enough that unscrupulous people will take the risk of breaking the law in return for those high profits. The only way to stop illicit drug trafficking is to break the back of demand, and that can only be done by going after the users--whether by education or by "negative re-enforcement" deterrence.
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Old 12-13-2011, 10:10 AM
 
Location: Colorado Springs, CO
2,221 posts, read 4,664,231 times
Reputation: 1692
Perhaps the solution is to legalize pot, and have the government subsidize testing so that it's incredibly cheap and easy for employers, prospective employers etc to test people. In fact, a voluntary certification program where a person would take the test and have a (time-limited) "drug-free" certificate available to hold out to potential employers, clients etc would be useful. Then employers, creditors, etc could discriminate at will against losers...errr...users.

An environment where those people who are willing to prove they are drug free have an advantage in employment, insurance premiums, position on organ transplant lists etc would be fair. Making it a condition of government employment and receipt of any sort of public benefits (i.e. food stamps, unemployment, welfare, student loans and grants etc) serves a compelling public interest too.

So that would turn the tables on the losers. Then it's not about telling anyone what they can or cannot do...it's about telling them what the rest of us won't do for them if they're not willing to go on record as being clean.
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Old 12-13-2011, 10:11 AM
 
Location: Wherabouts Unknown!
7,756 posts, read 16,505,934 times
Reputation: 9292
For certain special interests, the war on drugs has been, and continues to be.....a smashing success!
For all the evidence of how the War on Drugs has failed society, there's equally as much evidence of how it is a great success to those who continue to support it. The drug war has many advantages if you wish to control society and expand your empire. It also enriches several industries that would otherwise have a very difficult time staying solvent without it......David Icke

Here are ten ways the War on Drugs is a wild success
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Old 12-13-2011, 10:42 AM
 
Location: Durango, CO
169 posts, read 319,512 times
Reputation: 257
The only way to stop illicit drug trafficking is to break the back of demand, and that can only be done by going after the users--whether by education or by "negative re-enforcement" deterrence.

Yeah, because "breaking the back" of demand, aka the War on Drugs, has been so successful we should ratchet it up even more .
I'm going to take a different tack and put it in terms that are near and dear to you: money. I recently wrote a term paper and found the California penal system spends roughly $40,000 per year to house inmates. Murderer? $40,000. Rapist? $40,000. Every person caught with a joint if Jazz has his way? $40,000. Does the "damage" done really warrant the expense TO YOU, Jazz? It doesn't to most Americans and is one of the reasons why legalization isn't a matter of if, but when.
Like the feds, who have so much invested in the W.O.D that they are incapable of admitting they were wrong, you've boxed yourself in with your ludicrous position.

Last edited by VenusAllen; 12-13-2011 at 11:26 AM..
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Old 12-13-2011, 12:58 PM
 
Location: Atlanta Metro
129 posts, read 178,169 times
Reputation: 129
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob from down south View Post
Perhaps the solution is to legalize pot, and have the government subsidize testing so that it's incredibly cheap and easy for employers, prospective employers etc to test people. In fact, a voluntary certification program where a person would take the test and have a (time-limited) "drug-free" certificate available to hold out to potential employers, clients etc would be useful. Then employers, creditors, etc could discriminate at will against losers...errr...users.

An environment where those people who are willing to prove they are drug free have an advantage in employment, insurance premiums, position on organ transplant lists etc would be fair. Making it a condition of government employment and receipt of any sort of public benefits (i.e. food stamps, unemployment, welfare, student loans and grants etc) serves a compelling public interest too.

So that would turn the tables on the losers. Then it's not about telling anyone what they can or cannot do...it's about telling them what the rest of us won't do for them if they're not willing to go on record as being clean.
And what makes you believe employees or bosses who may have smoked pot over the weekend are in any way unfit to work, come Monday? Would you also test for the myriad of truly dangerous & unpredictable Rx drugs most Americans are on daily? It's obvious you didn't bother to read a single word from the linked articles I posted, I mean, why educate yourself further, if it might contradict your current opinions?
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Old 12-13-2011, 01:04 PM
 
Location: Atlanta Metro
129 posts, read 178,169 times
Reputation: 129
Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzlover View Post
Typical "straw-man" argument. I'm fully in favor of personal freedom UNTIL it infringes on the freedoms of someone else. As the saying goes, "Your right to swing your fist ends at the end of my nose." People love to think that their illicit drug use, including marijuana, does not affect other people. That's false. Just like alcohol, it can and does destroy families, frequently compromises safety in the workplace, costs taxpayers untold millions (billions) of dollars in rehabilitation and health care costs, and so on. Those costs would likely expand, not contract, if marijuana or other illicit drugs were legalized. If I thought that people could be responsible enough to use marijuana safely and not engage in activities that endanger others while they are impaired, I might be inclined to support its legalization--but the national experience with alcohol clearly demonstrates that far too many people lack that self-restraint. And, unfortunately, far too many people who turn to chemicals--drugs and alcohol--to make themselves feel good are the people who are especially lacking in that level of self-control. I've been around both drunks and "stoners"--and my opinion is that impaired is impaired in either case. They are a safety hazard both in the workplace and on the roads.

I will agree that the current "war on drugs," both nationally and in Colorado, has been a failure. It has been a failure because merely attempting to curb the supply of drugs only drives the price up and makes the potential profits from drug dealing high enough that unscrupulous people will take the risk of breaking the law in return for those high profits. The only way to stop illicit drug trafficking is to break the back of demand, and that can only be done by going after the users--whether by education or by "negative re-enforcement" deterrence.
What do you think we've been doing for 40 years? Putting millions of non-violent drug offenders in prison, many (especially those who are black) for a very long time! It hasn't worked, it didn't work with alcohol, it won't work no matter how many more millions we imprison, and you're just wrong. As one Mexican drug cartel member told Anderson Cooper one night, the only way this mess will ever end is "when the huge profits disappear"! We can lock up half the country, and it won't stop the trafficking.... It will only bankrupt & destroy our nation..
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Old 12-13-2011, 01:26 PM
 
Location: Colorado Springs, CO
2,221 posts, read 4,664,231 times
Reputation: 1692
Quote:
Originally Posted by SaxnFlutman View Post
And what makes you believe employees or bosses who may have smoked pot over the weekend are in any way unfit to work, come Monday? Would you also test for the myriad of truly dangerous & unpredictable Rx drugs most Americans are on daily? It's obvious you didn't bother to read a single word from the linked articles I posted, I mean, why educate yourself further, if it might contradict your current opinions?
What makes me believe drug users are unfit is decades of experience, having worked with and supervised thousands of employees, including a non-trivial number of substance abusers. The reliability of known substance abusers was subpar, their absenteeism was abnormally high, and their general performance and levels of motivation were far below their peers.

Bottom line: if I know you use recreational drugs, I don't trust you to be a reliable employee in an office setting...and much less so in any job where attention to detail translates to quality or safety. That evidence is far more compelling to me than a couple cherry-picked articles. And as a result, if I'm in charge, I WANT to know which of my employees uses, so I can get rid of them rapidly and preemptively.
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Old 12-13-2011, 01:29 PM
 
Location: The 719
13,749 posts, read 21,605,753 times
Reputation: 13342
We're sitting here talking about weed and drug laws. Meanwhile, tweaker cooks are busting into your local post office and cooking meth for use and distribution.

Meth, Schedule I.

Weed, Schedule ?.
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