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Old 01-30-2012, 10:25 AM
 
18,107 posts, read 16,448,492 times
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So the terrain around there matches what foreign country geographically? Canyons, brush, scrub? Its not desert I guess. Hey with 2012 now here, whats the deal with that Denver Airport and that complex underneath it? Any increased traffic heading there?

 
Old 01-30-2012, 01:10 PM
 
Location: Pueblo - Colorado's Second City
12,102 posts, read 20,348,297 times
Reputation: 4131
Quote:
Originally Posted by iknowftbll View Post
We are on the brink of some pretty big defense cutbacks, including personnel numbers, base closures, and funding cuts. My guess is that SE Colorado is safe for the foreseeable future.
I think this is the bigger issue especially for Colorado Springs where their economy is based on the military and military related companies. If the cut backs come in the next 20 years that Washing is talking about you could see one or two bases closed and that would cause a economic collapse much worse then Pueblo saw in the 80's when the steel industry nearly shut down.
 
Old 01-30-2012, 01:12 PM
 
20,304 posts, read 37,790,850 times
Reputation: 18081
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bideshi View Post
That is also my expectation. It's not beyond possible that the brigade expected won't come after all. The DOD is cutting from 45 to 37 brigades, and we won't know which ones for some time. Every Senator and Congressman is fighting to have the cut somewhere else.
We're bound to lose at least one Brigade here, given how big Carson is.
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Old 01-30-2012, 01:21 PM
 
Location: state of enlightenment
2,391 posts, read 4,561,591 times
Reputation: 2435
Quote:
Originally Posted by wanneroo View Post
It's always hilarious to me how people always want the benefit of everything in society but don't want it in their backyard or municipality.

I grew up around US Army Aviation. I miss the sound and sight of helicopters in the air. I lived right next to some of the busiest heliports in the world with 24hr traffic. Unless you are right across the street from a heliport, you'll rarely notice.

Overall it's just not that big of a deal. With the airspace involved and numbers of helicopters, it's a minimal impact.

Today's helicopters with rigid blades like the AH-64 and UH-60 are very quiet compared to the old UH-1 Hueys with it's flexible blades that would whap whap whap the air when slowing down.

Out at Eagle Airport in Eagle Colorado near Vail, the US Army's High Altitude training site has been there for over 20 years. Nobody seems to know that or notices too much that even exists. Yet they take off and land and fly all over the Rockies all day.

I read all the links posted. It's the usual anti American, anti military surrender monkeys that would gladly support terrorists attacking the USA(we deserve it, so they say) and the usual enviroterrorists that don't want any human impact on the land for any purpose at all. No defense, no food, no energy, no shelter.
So every time a general or politician gets an erection for a war it's our patriotic duty to kill and destroy, no questions asked? Why don't you move to N. Korea? Sounds like that kind of ideology is what you're comfortable with.
 
Old 01-30-2012, 01:24 PM
 
2,253 posts, read 5,835,868 times
Reputation: 2615
Wink Oh, really?

This country is already infested with enough military bases, like all over Nevada for instance, and doesn't need any more.

I support the troops: to stay home, and at peace. Not stationed in most nations of this world in a colossal empire, and not all over Colorado, either. If paying the scantest bit of attention anyone might see that this nation has become extremely warlike; watch the news or other media and it is constantly military this and military that, usually in some subjective puff piece.

National defense is best fostered with an intelligent, kind and wise approach to the world and one's fellow global neighbors. Not in constantly fomenting wars in foreign lands. Nor in having a military and expense budget about equal to all other nations combined, and politicians to adoring crowds proclaiming their intent to only add to that. Jeez. All these military installations, the wars, the whole lot of it is one big expense which is a huge drain on the economy and welfare of this nation. For all those that want 'jobs' in their backyard, guess who pays for them? France? No, you.

It also, by the way, in no way helps or preserves the fabric of a country when the military-industrial complex within it, and an often prevalent mindset of the populace, encourages the permanent installation of fear, and complete disregard for underlying principals, like our constitution. In having that expressed in any number of ways, like abrogation of your 4th Amendment rights both at the airport (which you paid for), and also lately in wholesale form by your Congress, executive branch, and before that judiciary. With this also expressed in no small way by the powers that be pretty much just doing as they like, whether running an oil pipeline through your backyard and crucial water supply, or in Colorado expropriating your once quiet and lovely home for their war games, when they could just as easily go somewhere else.

I'll also add that I've never seen a helicopter yet which didn't make a huge racket. Airplanes as well. But particularly with the later they could care less if they fly right over Rocky Mountain National Park. So good luck with escaping all signs of 'civilization' there. That is what you are dealing with. The same vacuous mindset which is so numbed to the constant ill-considered noises about it, that the average person has no idea what true peace and quiet is.

Although some property owners and ranchers in southeast Colorado might -- at least for now.
 
Old 01-30-2012, 01:32 PM
 
20,304 posts, read 37,790,850 times
Reputation: 18081
Okay gang, let's get back to the Pinon Canyon expansion targeted for S.E. Colorado.

I may move posts about national issues to another forum, but hope we can stick to the pro-con side of the current specific issue.
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Old 01-30-2012, 01:58 PM
 
9,816 posts, read 19,017,909 times
Reputation: 7537
Quote:
Originally Posted by geos View Post
So every time a general or politician gets an erection for a war it's our patriotic duty to kill and destroy, no questions asked? Why don't you move to N. Korea? Sounds like that kind of ideology is what you're comfortable with.
So you link defending your country with supporting a totalitarian regime?
 
Old 01-30-2012, 02:14 PM
 
9,816 posts, read 19,017,909 times
Reputation: 7537
Quote:
Originally Posted by Idunn View Post
This country is already infested with enough military bases, like all over Nevada for instance, and doesn't need any more.

I support the troops: to stay home, and at peace. Not stationed in most nations of this world in a colossal empire, and not all over Colorado, either. If paying the scantest bit of attention anyone might see that this nation has become extremely warlike; watch the news or other media and it is constantly military this and military that, usually in some subjective puff piece.

National defense is best fostered with an intelligent, kind and wise approach to the world and one's fellow global neighbors. Not in constantly fomenting wars in foreign lands. Nor in having a military and expense budget about equal to all other nations combined, and politicians to adoring crowds proclaiming their intent to only add to that. Jeez. All these military installations, the wars, the whole lot of it is one big expense which is a huge drain on the economy and welfare of this nation. For all those that want 'jobs' in their backyard, guess who pays for them? France? No, you.

It also, by the way, in no way helps or preserves the fabric of a country when the military-industrial complex within it, and an often prevalent mindset of the populace, encourages the permanent installation of fear, and complete disregard for underlying principals, like our constitution. In having that expressed in any number of ways, like abrogation of your 4th Amendment rights both at the airport (which you paid for), and also lately in wholesale form by your Congress, executive branch, and before that judiciary. With this also expressed in no small way by the powers that be pretty much just doing as they like, whether running an oil pipeline through your backyard and crucial water supply, or in Colorado expropriating your once quiet and lovely home for their war games, when they could just as easily go somewhere else.

I'll also add that I've never seen a helicopter yet which didn't make a huge racket. Airplanes as well. But particularly with the later they could care less if they fly right over Rocky Mountain National Park. So good luck with escaping all signs of 'civilization' there. That is what you are dealing with. The same vacuous mindset which is so numbed to the constant ill-considered noises about it, that the average person has no idea what true peace and quiet is.

Although some property owners and ranchers in southeast Colorado might -- at least for now.
So basically it is okay for states like Nevada to carry all the burden but Colorado can coast by?

Makes no sense, we belong to a federalized country of 50 states.

Modern US Army helicopters are quiet in most flight profiles and you will not hear them or even notice them most of the time. In fact the other day I was right next to a brand new Blackhawk taking it's new check flight and you barely heard it until you were 100 feet away.

In order to keep you nice and cozy and safe and sound, a lot of American men have to spend time overseas doing a lot of dirty work most people don't have the stomach for. It is the reality of human existence when you have people in the world that believe in chaos. And we are as kind as we can be. We are about the only country in human history that bothers helping to rebuild it's previous enemies in a positive way.

As they did for the Greeks and Romans and later Europe and much of Asia in World War 2, one day the totalitarian barbarians come for you and they don't care about all your little niceties. They came for us on 9/11 and they have tried to come again, but our efforts around the world are keeping that at bay.

I grew up with US Army Aviation. I know exactly what the impact is on the land and the local environment. If someone had not brought this up and made a big deal out of it, nobody would have ever noticed you had a few extra battalions of Army Aviation around in Colorado. If a few leftist groups had not found out about this, bovinedivine would have never noticed anymore than they notice commercial aviation flying over.

It's not that big a deal folks and Colorado is not a special state where no energy development, military training or development can't go on.
 
Old 01-30-2012, 02:46 PM
 
8,317 posts, read 25,095,377 times
Reputation: 9065
I am a firm supporter of an efficient and effective military. Unfortunately, the military is also an empire-building federal bureaucracy, just like any other federal bureaucracy. One of my relatives is a retired high-up in the US military. One of his functions was to find and eliminate waste in the bureaucracy and he described the waste he found there as "appalling."

I firmly believe the Piñon Canyon is a classic case of such wasteful empire building. With all of the existing bases and training facilities located across the US, I can see no reason that the military needs another one, save for some General's monument building idea that if "X" base has one, then MY base should have one. This is, I think, one of those classic examples that is one reason that federal spending is out of control. Colorado has fed long and hard at the federal military trough--the idea that we are somehow "deserving" of even more largess is specious. We should be figuring out what to do when that gravy train ends--because a lot of it is going to end. I firmly hope that either the Executive Branch or Congress drives a wood stake into the heart of the Piñon Canyon pork barrel--it needs to die.
 
Old 01-30-2012, 04:29 PM
 
Location: state of enlightenment
2,391 posts, read 4,561,591 times
Reputation: 2435
Quote:
Originally Posted by wanneroo View Post
So you link defending your country with supporting a totalitarian regime?
So you equate opposing wars for profit with being a traitor?
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