U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > Colorado
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Closed Thread Start New Thread
 
Old 02-02-2012, 04:16 PM
 
Location: Colorado Springs, CO
2,221 posts, read 4,494,822 times
Reputation: 1674

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by Josseppie View Post
I find myself in agreement with you. Not to get to much in the national politics here but of the current deficit 75% of it is entitlements and military spending. They can not balance the budget without cutting the military and I just don't see how they can do that without closing down a base or two in Colorado Springs.
Geez, you're like a dog watching TV barking at a picture you can't understand up on the screen. You don't know a bloody thing about the military budget process, the costs of closing a base, or much else related to this topic. But, as usual, you can draw an anti-Colorado Springs conclusion from all that you don't understand.

I'd love to see you produce some actual numbers to support this conclusion of yours...like how much it might cost to move NORAD's command and control facilities to a new, secure, threat-hardened, nuclear surety-compliant and tested facility, or how much it would cost to move Schreiver's one-of-a-kind space control facilities, or how much it would cost to completely shutter a giant base like Carson (and where those displaced forces might be based or train as an alternative).

How 'bout you put into perspective for us the magnitude of these proposed cuts in percentage terms as compared to the post-Cold War drawdowns in the 1990s? How 'bout some sense of the costs and savings realized from the last few BRAC rounds? You don't have a handle on any of this, but yet you conclude that a couple Colo Springs bases have got to close.

I think this is just another manifestation of your deep Colorado Springs envy.

 
Old 02-02-2012, 04:31 PM
 
19,543 posts, read 35,597,742 times
Reputation: 16613
Thank you Bob.

Having just spent $2B to expand Carson's facilities and infrastructure, I see no way it'll be closed. It may lose a brigade but probably little else.

I suspect that when the Army finishes incinerating the old mustard gas which is stored at the Pueblo Army Arsenal that it will hit the BRAC list; and maybe that billion dollar incinerator there can be put to use destroying old fracking chemicals.
__________________
- Please follow our TOS.
- Any Questions about City-Data? See the FAQ list.
- Want some detailed instructions on using the site? See The Guide for plain english explanation.
- Realtors are welcome here but do see our Realtor Advice to avoid infractions.
- Thank you and enjoy City-Data.

Last edited by Mike from back east; 02-02-2012 at 05:19 PM..
 
Old 02-02-2012, 04:43 PM
 
Location: Pensacola, Florida
599 posts, read 596,432 times
Reputation: 393
Interesting thread. I'm buying land in Colorado City so I was certainly curious what this was about. Until I read more about everything, I'll say this. I see both sides here.

I'm not a fan of a massive military and expansion of bases. Yet, living near several bases, I understand how they can certainly add to the area economically.

500-feet flyovers? I'm not into that. I'll certainly be staying tuned to this matter.
 
Old 02-02-2012, 05:21 PM
 
19,543 posts, read 35,597,742 times
Reputation: 16613
Quote:
Originally Posted by PcolaFLGuy View Post
....500-feet flyovers? ...
C'mon guys, they won't be SHOOTING at y'all....
__________________
- Please follow our TOS.
- Any Questions about City-Data? See the FAQ list.
- Want some detailed instructions on using the site? See The Guide for plain english explanation.
- Realtors are welcome here but do see our Realtor Advice to avoid infractions.
- Thank you and enjoy City-Data.
 
Old 02-02-2012, 05:27 PM
 
Location: Pensacola, Florida
599 posts, read 596,432 times
Reputation: 393
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike from back east View Post
C'mon guys, they won't be SHOOTING at y'all....
Well, as long as I can shoot back, we're all good!

LOL. I'm just saying. I deal with military flyovers daily and live right next to the regional airport. But 500 feet? Especially when the locals are wanting 5000K. I'm not sure what the norm here is, but that sounds like a wide gap between what the locals and military feel is acceptable. No?
 
Old 02-02-2012, 05:54 PM
 
Location: The 719
11,654 posts, read 19,903,119 times
Reputation: 12252
Quote:
Originally Posted by wanneroo View Post
It's the usual anti American, anti military surrender monkeys that would gladly support terrorists attacking the USA(we deserve it, so they say) and the usual enviroterrorists that don't want any human impact on the land for any purpose at all. No defense, no food, no energy, no shelter.
The extreme southeast section of Colorado ain't in my backyard so it would be easy for me to agree to sacrifice that desolate seemingly barren and dry land to something constructive... or destructive but patriotic and exciting.

But what about those few folks out there? What about the voice of everyone in the Ark Valley and the areas including the following counties ... Pueblo Huerfano Las Animas Otero Crowley Bent Prowers and Baca just to name a few?

I know many of these folks from here that oppose Pinion Canyon expansion adamantly and I know they are nothing like you describe in the quote above.

To be blunt, I disagree with your spin on the topic entirely and agree with the assessment of the OP.
 
Old 02-02-2012, 06:31 PM
 
Location: Pueblo - Colorado's Second City
11,897 posts, read 19,072,151 times
Reputation: 3980
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob from down south View Post
Geez, you're like a dog watching TV barking at a picture you can't understand up on the screen. You don't know a bloody thing about the military budget process, the costs of closing a base, or much else related to this topic. But, as usual, you can draw an anti-Colorado Springs conclusion from all that you don't understand.
I don't view it as a anti Colorado Springs view just a warning so their economic leaders diversify their economy. I volunteer for PEDCo in Pueblo and we are constantly trying to give Pueblo a diversified economic base why would Colorado Springs not want the same thing and why is suggesting that anti Colorado Springs?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob from down south View Post
I'd love to see you produce some actual numbers to support this conclusion of yours...like how much it might cost to move NORAD's command and control facilities to a new, secure, threat-hardened, nuclear surety-compliant and tested facility, or how much it would cost to move Schreiver's one-of-a-kind space control facilities, or how much it would cost to completely shutter a giant base like Carson (and where those displaced forces might be based or train as an alternative).
Obviously I don't have those but I do know that 75% of the federal deficit is entitlements and military spending. They will have to cut military spending there is no way around that. I admit I could be wrong and they will not close down any bases but with how much they will need to cut out of the military budget I just think that is something that should be considered in any long range planning.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob from down south View Post
How 'bout you put into perspective for us the magnitude of these proposed cuts in percentage terms as compared to the post-Cold War drawdowns in the 1990s? How 'bout some sense of the costs and savings realized from the last few BRAC rounds? You don't have a handle on any of this, but yet you conclude that a couple Colo Springs bases have got to close.
Just look at the federal deficit. How can they not solve it without major cuts in military spending and how will that not affect the local economy of Colorado Springs where most of the local GDP is either directly or indirectly related to military spending.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob from down south View Post
I think this is just another manifestation of your deep Colorado Springs envy.
I am not jealous of the Springs being a military city as I live in one as well. Pueblo is home to the USAF pilot school which technically is a small military base, the Pueblo Chemical Depot, and even Fort Carson as they want to open the southern gate and that would help Pueblo and is one of the reasons Pueblo Springs Ranch is being considered. I just know what its like to live in a city when a base is closed down and nothing was done prior to diversify the economy, I am referring to when the Pueblo Army Depot was closed. All I am trying to do is point out no matter how unlikely it might seem today giving the financial situation of the federal government I would not put anything past them and I think Colorado Springs can and should do more to diversify their economy. I mean the MSA is over 600,000 people. If they got some kind of tax credit going for primary jobs imagine the kind of incentives they could give out and what kind of large companies they could get to move there.

Last edited by Josseppie; 02-02-2012 at 07:05 PM..
 
Old 02-02-2012, 07:04 PM
 
Location: Colorado Springs
13,951 posts, read 6,436,335 times
Reputation: 13759
Quote:
Originally Posted by McGowdog View Post
The extreme southeast section of Colorado ain't in my backyard so it would be easy for me to agree to sacrifice that desolate seemingly barren and dry land to something constructive... or destructive but patriotic and exciting.

But what about those few folks out there? What about the voice of everyone in the Ark Valley and the areas including the following counties ... Pueblo Huerfano Las Animas Otero Crowley Bent Prowers and Baca just to name a few?

I know many of these folks from here that oppose Pinion Canyon expansion adamantly and I know they are nothing like you describe in the quote above.

To be blunt, I disagree with your spin on the topic entirely and agree with the assessment of the OP.
So if no rural area wanted a military base, you would cancel the military base?

And what happens when an area is going to lose a military base? Usually out and out panic about the resulting loss to the community.

This is very much like a controversy in the Washington, D.C. The majority wanted a "tough on crime" approach, but nobody wanted a prison.
 
Old 02-02-2012, 07:17 PM
 
Location: Arlington, Va
236 posts, read 367,158 times
Reputation: 132
Quote:
Originally Posted by McGowdog View Post
The extreme southeast section of Colorado ain't in my backyard so it would be easy for me to agree to sacrifice that desolate seemingly barren and dry land to something constructive... or destructive but patriotic and exciting.
usually even if a base is setup in the middle of nowhere center of the desert a town of some sort is bound to follow and sprout up around it eventually.

as I've read it Ft Carson is permanently activated...
 
Old 02-02-2012, 07:46 PM
 
Location: Fredericksburg, VA
9,684 posts, read 9,403,733 times
Reputation: 12232
Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzlover View Post
As to base or installation closures, my prediction is that Colorado Springs will a top candidate for at least one and maybe two major closures within a few years simply because of the political reality that it is easier to close a couple of bases where there are numerous installations as opposed to closing a singular base in a locale where it is the sole economic engine for a whole city or region.
It isn't about how easy it is to select a location for the chopping block based on "number of bases in close proximity to each other." It's all about current military doctrine and the strategic roles played by the bases in question. This is why the prevailing belief is that the worst of it for Colorado Springs will be to see Fort Carson lose a brigade. But I keep pointing out that Fort Carson may also be the beneficiary of some other base in some other location shutting down, so right now it is just as likely that the base and city will benefit from this phase of military down sizing.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Closed Thread


Options
X
Data:
Loading data...
Based on 2000-2013 data
Loading data...

123
Hide US histogram

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > Colorado

All times are GMT -6.

2005-2017, Advameg, Inc.

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32 - Top