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Old 02-06-2012, 12:35 AM
Location: Colorado Springs
19,168 posts, read 9,036,567 times
Reputation: 18565


Originally Posted by zenkonami View Post
I think that's a pretty fierce statement right there. I also think it's unjustified and wrong.

Our military takes up an inordinate amount of our federal budget. It establishes our means of influence primarily by force. It requires vast amounts of resources in order to survive - resources that could also be allocated elsewhere, and does so under the notion that without a military of this scale, all 50 states would fall in a day...all of this supported by an industry of people who need it to keep going because the military is a ruthlessly efficient economic driver. Killing people means we need more weapons, more technology and the ability to build new infrastructure after everything has been blown up.

And you know what? I don't hate the military. I don't think we should disband it. I DO think we spend way too much time, money and energy believing that we are imperial Rome out for glory and conquest in the guise of securing the "Homeland" (how totalitarian a term is that?) We live in a culture now that largely believes that military aims should trump all others...environmental, agricultural, energy and human rights.

I honestly don't know enough about the situation in SE Colorado. I can't make the call. But for people that live there, it might just be that they value their part of their country more than they value having another base of operations for a bloated organization whose job it is to blow things up and kill people in a time of relative peace.

And I am so sorry to all the service members that don't get to experience that peace...but politics has deemed perpetual war to be preferable to ACTUALLY accomplishing strategic mission objectives and achieving peaceful ends. I will not vote for those demagogues that created and maintained this state of affairs, but unfortunately I'm one person in a sea of people that are SO AFRAID of EVERYTHING in the world that doesn't fly a Star Spangled Banner that they DEMAND we persist in breaking things and killing people until that day when we are sanctioned officially SAFE...a day that, under rules like these, will never arrive.

There is more to life than the notion that DEFENSE is everything...if you have little left to defend then it seems scarcely worthwhile to some people to protect it. Yes, we DO have many great liberties worth fighting for, but we're busy tearing them apart from the inside as it is...and our own military is helpless to protect us against our own willful self destruction.

I grew up a military brat. I am a supporter of American soldiers, sailors and airmen. I've served myself.

But promoting the idea of militarism dominating everything else in our culture in the name of "freedom" and "defense" to the exclusion of all else is a kind of intellectual cowaradice...a refusal to acknowledge that the PURPOSE of all this defense...is so that we have a lifestyle worth living.
Well, zenkonami, you sort of just proved wanneroo's point.

Old 02-06-2012, 09:34 AM
9,817 posts, read 19,091,875 times
Reputation: 7546
Originally Posted by phetaroi View Post
Well, zenkonami, you sort of just proved wanneroo's point.
They wrote a post to disagree with what I was saying and proved my point. All these people "support the troops", just not in their backyard, locality or state.

It's nonsense and not realistic and they don't "support the troops" because it's actions that count, not words.

The military, like any government entity, could have waste cut out, especially bureaucrats. But it's undergone a 20 year BRAC process, streamlining bases and reducing the number of them and the Army for instance is 200,000 personnel fewer than back in the late 80's.

The military is looking for a 6% increase in live firing and 8500 more flight hours at Pinon Canyon. Big deal. The fact that citizens are wasting our tax dollars on fighting this is disgusting to me. Absolutely disgusting, especially considering just about all those involved in these radical groups don't even live anywhere near the training facility.
Old 02-06-2012, 09:59 AM
20,389 posts, read 37,963,986 times
Reputation: 18196
Lots of overly emotional hype going on here.... "all those involved in these radical groups" and "any government entity, could have waste cut out, especially bureaucrats...." and other overly broadly based stereotyping.

The OP is not a radical, but an outgoing woman who simply chose to live in a sparse rural area. Her small group of neighbors are not a "radical group" any more than are the local Lions Club or Shriners.

I worked around such attitudes in the Army just after the Vietnam War ended. Our offices were typically 2-3 military officers of the O-4 to O-6 level and about 20 civilians of varying pay grades. The officers had an us vs them outlook at that time, a sort of circle the wagons / bunker mentality, which I attributed to the earlier war protests that were composed of civilians, thus any civilian was suspect in their eyes, a potential enemy even.

Believe me folks, it gets tiresome to keep on hearing archaic stereotypes flung around, that anyone who disagrees with me/us is automatically the enemy. That's nonsense. I worked goddamn hard for the Army for 30 years, as did the vast majority of my fellow civilians, and I/we personally resent these simplistic remarks about radicals and bureaucrats. One or two pieces of deadwood does not make 20 other fine employees into "bureaucrats" or the enemy.

There are many sides and viewpoints to any topic and as such the validity and quality of those views run the gamut from low to high.

We aren't going to solve the issues raised by the OP if we resort to blanket condemnation and labeling of the other guys just because they disagree. If that's the best we got in this thread, then it's thread closed.
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Last edited by Mike from back east; 02-06-2012 at 10:08 AM..
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