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Old 02-28-2012, 10:59 PM
 
Location: Pueblo - Colorado's Second City
11,897 posts, read 19,072,151 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike from back east View Post
LC, other ethnic groups had the same problem when they first came here, including your Italian ancestors, who got treated poorly just like the Jews, Poles, Chinese, Vietnamese boat people, and other nationalities and races. These days, no one thinks twice about those groups, they're well-regarded fellow citizens (except in the eyes of the KKK-style bigots). In a generation it will be the same with the Hispanics, who I find to be among the best workers I've ever seen, and their food is good and girls pretty....
I agree with this 100%. I would just add that the guys are very handsome as well....
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Old 02-28-2012, 11:20 PM
 
5,091 posts, read 12,553,377 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike from back east View Post
LC, other ethnic groups had the same problem when they first came here, including your Italian ancestors, who got treated poorly just like the Jews, Poles, Chinese, Vietnamese boat people, and other nationalities and races. These days, no one thinks twice about those groups, they're well-regarded fellow citizens (except in the eyes of the KKK-style bigots). In a generation it will be the same with the Hispanics, who I find to be among the best workers I've ever seen, and their food is good and girls pretty....
As you read in my post, I agree. My other posts, in the past, show my acceptance of others and the way I live my life. I know very well the history of ethnic groups this country. We cannot mask the reality of the situation by ignoring the issues.

However, your statement is wrong to say that "no one thinks twice about these groups" and it is just not some KKK extremist. Reality speaks otherwise. There is de facto ethnic and racial discrimination all around us. In addition, economics of class cause segregation of class to exist.

"...food is good, the girls are pretty...the guys are very handsome..."Where I grew up and lived, you would get pushed to the fence with those patronizing stereotypical statements that do not give credit to the more important characteristics of a culture, but I do understand your admiration.

Livecontent

Last edited by livecontent; 02-29-2012 at 12:09 AM..
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Old 02-28-2012, 11:33 PM
 
5,091 posts, read 12,553,377 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Josseppie View Post
^

I can see there being healthy competition between CSU Fort Collins and CSU Pueblo especially as CSU Pueblo grows but I see that as a advantage to both schools not a disadvantage. No one can deny that CSU Pueblo is already a much better school and that Pueblo has seen the benefit and it has been less then 10 years. On top of that everyone is expecting CSU Pueblo to continue to grow and improve so fast forward 10, 20, and 30 years what will the university be like and what kind of social and economic impact will it have on Pueblo? If the last few years are any indication I think it could be much more then I think possible.

Finally I want to say I am not ignoring your comment about Fort Collins being a better place to live as that is subjective and I think by now we all know what I am going to say . I will say both universities growing and becoming stronger is only good for the system and that is why I am glad the system Chancellor is in Denver, a more neutral location, so they can make sure both universities can do the best they can.
It is reality that most who have power and money will perceive Fort Collins as a better place to live, not necessarily because it is so, but because the media has made it out to be so, and many want to be seen where others perceive as better--It is no different than their attitude in buying a Lexus or eating at a Posh Restaurant. I have been to Pueblo, many times but not enough, and I have taken your descriptions of your town, seriously, and thought much of what defines that which is better. Since I enjoy the Hispanic Culture; and I do not ascribe to "group think" and I decry some of affectation and conspicuous consumption of class, I would consider Pueblo as a great place to live.

I am strongly impressed by Pueblo in the many cultural events and activities that it champions the Hispanic and Mexican Culture. It cannot be hidden so speak loud and clearly what Pueblo has, and be proud to give it more attention.

I voted for Hickenlooper for many reason but one main reason is that he picked as the Lt. Governor, Joseph Garcia. I think it is very important to have a strong Hispanic Voice in the Colorado Government.

Livecontent

Last edited by livecontent; 02-28-2012 at 11:51 PM..
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Old 02-29-2012, 12:13 AM
 
Location: Pueblo - Colorado's Second City
11,897 posts, read 19,072,151 times
Reputation: 3980
Quote:
Originally Posted by livecontent View Post
It is reality that most who have power and money will perceive Fort Collins as a better place to live, not necessarily because it is so, but because the media has made it out to be so, and many want to be seen where others perceive as better--It is no different than their attitude in buying a Lexus or eating at a Posh Restaurant. I have been to Pueblo, many times but not enough, and I have taken your descriptions of your town, seriously, and thought much of what defines that which is better. Since I enjoy the Hispanic Culture; and I do not ascribe to "group think" and I decry some of affectation and conspicuous consumption of class, I would consider Pueblo as a great place to live.

I am strongly impressed by Pueblo in the many cultural events and activities that it champions the Hispanic and Mexican Culture. It cannot be hidden so speak loud and clearly what Pueblo has, and be proud to give it more attention.

I voted for Hickenlooper for many reason but one main reason is that he picked as the Lt. Governor, Joseph Garcia. I think it is very important to have a strong Hispanic Voice in the Colorado Government.

Livecontent
Even if you are right and Fort Collins is seen as the better town by some that does not mean that Pueblo will not grow and continue to improve itself. Pueblo has many faults but a willingness to invest in our cities future is not one of them. The same thing is true about the universities. Currently there is no comparison between both schools but CSU Pueblo is a regional comprehensive university and the growth school in the system so in time the gap will narrow at least enough that it will be able to attract some fine companies to Pueblo. I actually think down the road both school will be highly successful and will benefit both cities socially and economically and it will benefit CSU FC as CSU Pueblo becomes more successful just as CSU FC success is helping CSU Pueblo.
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Old 02-29-2012, 11:30 AM
 
5,091 posts, read 12,553,377 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Josseppie View Post
Even if you are right and Fort Collins is seen as the better town by some that does not mean that Pueblo will not grow and continue to improve itself. Pueblo has many faults but a willingness to invest in our cities future is not one of them. The same thing is true about the universities. Currently there is no comparison between both schools but CSU Pueblo is a regional comprehensive university and the growth school in the system so in time the gap will narrow at least enough that it will be able to attract some fine companies to Pueblo. I actually think down the road both school will be highly successful and will benefit both cities socially and economically and it will benefit CSU FC as CSU Pueblo becomes more successful just as CSU FC success is helping CSU Pueblo.
I totally support this statement. It is extremely important that Colorado supports all regions of the State and aggressively builds strong core cities in all the regions and not concentrate the wealth in a few select cities and regions. Pueblo is the core city that is very important for Southern Colorado, and we should not ignore the Eastern Plains or the Mountains or the Western Slope.

I grew up in New York where New York City thrives and the rest of the state dies. It has been, consistently, the case over many decades where the powers of the State ignored the other cities and regions in the state. Buffalo, Rochester and other cities in regions are dying and in decay while New York City gets richer.

Livecontent
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Old 02-29-2012, 05:24 PM
 
Location: Pueblo - Colorado's Second City
11,897 posts, read 19,072,151 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by livecontent View Post
I totally support this statement. It is extremely important that Colorado supports all regions of the State and aggressively builds strong core cities in all the regions and not concentrate the wealth in a few select cities and regions. Pueblo is the core city that is very important for Southern Colorado, and we should not ignore the Eastern Plains or the Mountains or the Western Slope.

I grew up in New York where New York City thrives and the rest of the state dies. It has been, consistently, the case over many decades where the powers of the State ignored the other cities and regions in the state. Buffalo, Rochester and other cities in regions are dying and in decay while New York City gets richer.

Livecontent
I think we found a area where we can agree in. By me being excited about Pueblo being a university town does not diminish the other cities in the state. Its just that in my opinion Pueblo had all the tools to be a large city but lacked one key one, a university. I mean I can't think of any city over 250,000 people that does not have a university. Now we have one and I think that is one reason regional planners have predicted Pueblo will grow as much as they have.

I find that interesting about NY as I did not know the rest of the state got ignored then again I have only been to NYC and more specifically Manhattan.
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Old 02-29-2012, 05:52 PM
 
Location: Fredericksburg, VA
9,684 posts, read 9,403,733 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Josseppie View Post

I find that interesting about NY as I did not know the rest of the state got ignored then again I have only been to NYC and more specifically Manhattan.
You should look at the historical census data for cities like Buffalo and Rochester. Syracuse too. They have been on decline for a while now. Buffalo had nearly 600,000 people in 1950 and has steadily been losing population. I believe it clocked it at 250,000-260,000 this last census. Rochester is not as extreme, but it has also been losing population since peaking in 1950.

Another example of a state that is dominated by one city is Nevada. Clark County (Las Vegas area) contains most of the state's population (over 1.9 million of the state's 2.7 million). I have never lived in Nevada so I cannot verify this first hand, but I have read that many residents in rural Nevada, Carson City area, and Reno resent Las Vegas because it is geographically isolated from the rest of the state's population yet weighs in so heavily in state politics.

Of course, Nevada and New York are vastly different states, and they are dominated by a single entity for different reasons. Rural Nevada/Reno are not in decline like upstate New York, they just have not prospered or grown at the same rate as Las Vegas.
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Old 02-29-2012, 06:19 PM
 
Location: Pueblo - Colorado's Second City
11,897 posts, read 19,072,151 times
Reputation: 3980
Quote:
Originally Posted by iknowftbll View Post
You should look at the historical census data for cities like Buffalo and Rochester. Syracuse too. They have been on decline for a while now. Buffalo had nearly 600,000 people in 1950 and has steadily been losing population. I believe it clocked it at 250,000-260,000 this last census. Rochester is not as extreme, but it has also been losing population since peaking in 1950.

Another example of a state that is dominated by one city is Nevada. Clark County (Las Vegas area) contains most of the state's population (over 1.9 million of the state's 2.7 million). I have never lived in Nevada so I cannot verify this first hand, but I have read that many residents in rural Nevada, Carson City area, and Reno resent Las Vegas because it is geographically isolated from the rest of the state's population yet weighs in so heavily in state politics.

Of course, Nevada and New York are vastly different states, and they are dominated by a single entity for different reasons. Rural Nevada/Reno are not in decline like upstate New York, they just have not prospered or grown at the same rate as Las Vegas.
A number of cities in the so called rust belt have lost population from their peak in the 1950's so while Pueblo has not grown a lot like Colorado Springs and Denver it says a lot that Pueblo is currently at its peak population and expected to grow a lot more in the next 30 years.

Nevada is different as there are no cities outside Las Vegas and Reno to speak of.
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Old 02-29-2012, 06:35 PM
 
Location: Fredericksburg, VA
9,684 posts, read 9,403,733 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Josseppie View Post
A number of cities in the so called rust belt have lost population from their peak in the 1950's so while Pueblo has not grown a lot like Colorado Springs and Denver it says a lot that Pueblo is currently at its peak population and expected to grow a lot more in the next 30 years.
This is true. Several of Colorado's cities (not including Denver suburbs) are at peak populations, including Denver, Colorado Springs, Fort Collins, Greeley, and your beloved Pueblo. I think part of Pueblo's survival story can be explained by the fact that Colorado did not really begin to grow fast until the 1960s. It has really taken off since then. This was early in the rust belt decline, and Pueblo, while it certainly suffered, did not suffer to the extent that rust belt cities did. Location location location!
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Old 02-29-2012, 08:41 PM
 
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Buffalo is the second largest city in New York and has about 247,000. New York City, the largest city has about 9 million. Can one not see a big problem here.

Does it not seem strange with such an unbalanced State of such a large population. New York is not like Neveda with a large areas, a relatively small population and areas that are difficult to populated. It is old Colonial State, that is large, fertile and hospitable in most areas with a very large population but most live near or in NYC.

New York sits in the category of large population with California, Texas and Florida. In those states you see a distributed population with more than one thriving large city. New York is indeed a strange place.

When I was growing up in the 1950s, Buffalo had about 550,000 and it was decaying at that time. Now with less than half the population it is much worse. Buffalo is ignored by the power elite in NYC but so is the rest of the cities that are not in the shadow of NYC. NYC is prospering; the rest of the State is dying. If you want to see something really tragic, go to Niagara Falls, NY--a city of extreme decay and is an American Shame when you look across the river at the Canadian Side. It is not recent as it has always been that way.

From my prospective, New York is the Empire State and it runs as an old Empire with a central powerful core and vassals that the Empire wants to keep in dependence and need. Why? I think because New York City and its inhabitants are much different and have a much different culture than the rest of the country. It has an arrogance that is beyond any city, as it has always be touted as the biggest, the best, the financial capital, the Capital of Corporate America. It is just bad luck that the other cities have to be in the same State as this greedy, arrogant beast. New York City should be its own State and the rest of the State should become independent or in association with another neighboring State.

The point I am making we should not form the same extreme imbalance in Colorado. Wealth and Opportunity and Population must be distributed as much as possible. There will always be more people on the front range than the mountains or the far eastern plains because of the geographical constraints, but we need not become a New York Empire State with all the control and wealth in Denver. We need to heavily invest in other cities such as Greeley, Grand Junction, Fort Morgan, Burlington, and Pueblo etc.; and if it requires the front range to give more, to develop more of the other regions, then so be it.

Livecontent

Last edited by livecontent; 02-29-2012 at 08:52 PM..
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