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Old 03-28-2012, 11:00 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by proveick View Post
I anticipate lots of class 3 fire restrictions this summer. Campgrounds will be taking a hit.
Agreed. As the gas prices continually go up, a lot of people will settle in on several three or four day camping trips for their summer vacation. I think the chances are pretty good that there will be a campfire ban in a good portion of the mountains this season and that it will start by Memorial Day weekend. I would love to be wrong in this case.

 
Old 03-28-2012, 11:01 AM
 
Location: Ned CO @ 8300'
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Burn bans in effect in Boulder County, Unincorporated Arapahoe County (Includes Cherry Creek State Park and Centennial), Golden, Englewood and Denver Mountain Parks. Burn bans in effect for several cities, counties | 9news.com
 
Old 03-28-2012, 11:08 AM
 
Location: Bend, OR
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Quote:
Originally Posted by proveick View Post
With the insurance being capped at $600K do you think there will be lawsuits against the Forest Service for their incompetence?
(they were responsible for the fire)
From what I've read, it looks like the fire possibly started from a prescribed burn done by the Colorado State Forest Service, which is different from the US Forest Service. Minor detail, but worthy to note. While it's easy to put the blame on them, the reason behind the blaze was to actually reduce wildfire risk. I don't think you can say it was incompetence. They didn't do a prescribed burn on a high risk day. It was smoldering and the warm weather and winds probably caused it to reignite. Unfortunately, that is a risk with prescribed burns.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzlover View Post
I don't think that it has been firmly established that the Colorado State Forest Service was responsible for igniting the fire. Whether they are responsible or not, there will be lawsuits. People are always looking for someone else to blame for whatever happens. Whether such lawsuits would be successful is another matter.

The analogy for the situation of living in a fire-prone area is this:

You put on dark clothing and wander out into the middle of a busy 75 mph multi-lane highway in the middle of the night--and stand there for hours. You get hit and killed by a bus. Is the bus driver somewhat culpable? Maybe, but it was really stupid and dangerous for you to wander out in the middle of busy highway in dark clothing in the middle of the night, now wasn't it? Should the responsibility of that be charged to the bus driver? The bus company? The taxpayers? Or you?
For once, I agree with you Jazz! It's easy to place the blame on the state, but really when people build homes in the forest, where fire was part of the historic landscape, something like this was bound to happen. In Ponderosa Pine forests, fire cycled through every 25-50 years or so cleaning out the understory and keeping the forests healthy. With the exclusion of fire, and most activities that mimic fire, it was only a matter of time before a crown fire happened. The blame should be placed on everyone, including those people who chose to live in the forest. They knew the risk.

Quote:
Originally Posted by pamelaBeurman View Post
If this was started by the Forestry Service, yes they should be held liable.

Considering the current conditions in this area, dry and extremely windy, it wasn't the brightest idea to have a "controlled" burn.

Even with just a light breeze a fire can spread rapidly. I've seen it happen. A couple of years ago our neighbor was target shooting and hit a steel drum with a bullet. One spark and within a couple of minutes, two acres of our south field was on fire.

People just don't realize how fast things like this can happen.
It will be interesting to see what the report says. I agree, that having a controlled burn during dry, windy times isn't a great idea. But I wonder what the actual conditions were when the burn happened?
 
Old 03-28-2012, 11:20 AM
 
Location: playing in the colorful Colorado dirt
4,486 posts, read 4,461,080 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by delta07 View Post
From what I've read, it looks like the fire possibly started from a prescribed burn done by the Colorado State Forest Service, which is different from the US Forest Service. Minor detail, but worthy to note. While it's easy to put the blame on them, the reason behind the blaze was to actually reduce wildfire risk. I don't think you can say it was incompetence. They didn't do a prescribed burn on a high risk day. It was smoldering and the warm weather and winds probably caused it to reignite. Unfortunately, that is a risk with prescribed burns.



For once, I agree with you Jazz! It's easy to place the blame on the state, but really when people build homes in the forest, where fire was part of the historic landscape, something like this was bound to happen. In Ponderosa Pine forests, fire cycled through every 25-50 years or so cleaning out the understory and keeping the forests healthy. With the exclusion of fire, and most activities that mimic fire, it was only a matter of time before a crown fire happened. The blame should be placed on everyone, including those people who chose to live in the forest. They knew the risk.



It will be interesting to see what the report says. I agree, that having a controlled burn during dry, windy times isn't a great idea. But I wonder what the actual conditions were when the burn happened?
We've had high wind warnings all up and down the front range for several days now, including Monday when this fire started.

Sometimes, I don't think the people who plan these things have brains, just a single brain cell that they share.
 
Old 03-28-2012, 11:43 AM
 
Location: Ned CO @ 8300'
2,019 posts, read 4,322,014 times
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The burn was last Thursday, March 22. High winds were not in the forecast at that time.
Colo. wildfire could be linked to controlled burn - Yahoo! News
Investigators are trying to determine whether the fire reignited from a controlled burn that was meant to reduce vegetation that could fuel a devastating blaze around homes and watersheds.The Colorado State Forest Service did conduct a 35-acre burn in the region on Thursday — on land belonging to Denver's water authority — said forest service spokesman Ryan Lockwood.

Our own personal experience... there was a small Forest Service prescribed burn within 2 miles of our house. A WEEK later we had very high winds (60-76 mph gusts) and the fire restarted late in the evening. Fortunately we spotted it and it was extinguished within hours. We were very lucky.
 
Old 03-28-2012, 11:48 AM
 
Location: Bend, OR
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pamelaBeurman View Post
We've had high wind warnings all up and down the front range for several days now, including Monday when this fire started.

Sometimes, I don't think the people who plan these things have brains, just a single brain cell that they share.
I get what you are saying, but what I meant was what the conditions were like the day they did the prescribed burn, not the day the fire broke out. I just did a little weather data search, and while I know a lot more goes into spot fire weather, it appears the controlled burn was done on Thursday, March 22nd. The conditions that day were ideal for burning. Low winds and mild temperatures.
 
Old 03-28-2012, 12:39 PM
 
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This is just going to make things WORSE. More fuel on the forest floor.
Colorado governor to stop prescribed burns after wildfire
 
Old 03-28-2012, 12:42 PM
 
8,317 posts, read 25,774,765 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by delta07 View Post
I get what you are saying, but what I meant was what the conditions were like the day they did the prescribed burn, not the day the fire broke out. I just did a little weather data search, and while I know a lot more goes into spot fire weather, it appears the controlled burn was done on Thursday, March 22nd. The conditions that day were ideal for burning. Low winds and mild temperatures.
The conundrum that the forest management people (be they US Forest Service or Colorado State Forest Service) face is essentially unsurmountable. A fellow I know who worked for the US Forest Service lamented to me years ago about how the combination of fuels buildup, homebuilding in bad places, air pollution regulations, and all kinds of other inane little issues made it nearly impossible for them to conduct controlled burns. The conundrum is that, with no fire to clean out underbrush, etc. in the forest, the fuel buildup in those forests just continued to increase--making future controlled burns even more difficult to conduct safely. Now, what people can't seem to figure out is that all that underbrush, diseased trees, etc. IS GOING TO BURN ONE WAY OR ANOTHER AT SOME POINT. If it's not in a controlled burn or small natural fires (the latter almost always suppressed if they are anywhere near structures), then it is going to burn in a much larger, much more devastating, and much more impossible to control fire at some point--whether the ignition source is natural or human-caused. That is exactly what we are seeing right now.
 
Old 03-28-2012, 01:57 PM
 
Location: playing in the colorful Colorado dirt
4,486 posts, read 4,461,080 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by delta07 View Post
I get what you are saying, but what I meant was what the conditions were like the day they did the prescribed burn, not the day the fire broke out. I just did a little weather data search, and while I know a lot more goes into spot fire weather, it appears the controlled burn was done on Thursday, March 22nd. The conditions that day were ideal for burning. Low winds and mild temperatures.
Up until 5 minutes ago I thought the burn was started on Monday. Our local news reported it as such.

I stand corrected.

Still, this is wildfire season, any burn needs to be carefully monitored.
 
Old 03-30-2012, 07:04 AM
 
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The latest stats on the North Fork Fire according to 9 News.com:

27 homes destroyed
4140 acres burned
45% contained

Some of the residents have been allowed to go home.
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