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Old 04-24-2012, 12:32 PM
 
9,830 posts, read 19,529,511 times
Reputation: 7602

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Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzlover View Post
A person owning a $2 million valued home in Colorado would pay a whopping $6,000-$9,000 in property tax in Colorado, about what many people in other states pay in property tax for a home valued at $300,000. Get your facts straight.

As for the OP, I think he's entitled to hear about how some of us feel about the "rural subdivision second home invasion" in Colorado--and the truth about the impacts those have and how they fit into the fiscal scheme of the state.
I've seen property tax bills for $2 million dollar homes in Colorado that run closer to $15,000.

In addition, those that live in $300K homes in other states that have higher property taxes might live in more densely populated areas with a lot more infrastructure compared to a home in sparse rural Colorado.

If you want to blowhard on these irrelevant issues, then start your own thread for it, it's not that hard to do.
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Old 04-24-2012, 12:46 PM
 
Location: Southeastern Colorado
319 posts, read 640,582 times
Reputation: 446
I feel badly that the OP's thread was derailed. Truly, all he (?) seems to want is some dirt under his feet and a place to get away -- yet he ended up unwittingly becoming the lightning rod for the entire spectrum of economic and growth-related woes in Colorado.

I could understand if he has entirely ditched C-D by now, but if he hasn't, I hope he comes back to pick up the conversation he began. Too bad that he's looking for mountains; otherwise I'd be beating the drum for the southeastern plains, canyons, and mesas!

Last edited by bovinedivine; 04-24-2012 at 12:47 PM.. Reason: typo
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Old 04-24-2012, 12:59 PM
 
9,830 posts, read 19,529,511 times
Reputation: 7602
Quote:
Originally Posted by md21722 View Post
If you want to know the evils of homebuilding in the mountains, just ask the long time residents in the Montana Rockies. The long time residents are not investment bankers brining their millions or billions with them to a rural economy. The long time residents could afford to live in Montana on what the local economy offered. As property values go up their children cannot afford homes near their parents and the residents who stay see tax increases and restrictions on some of their favorite past times. Its not unique to the Mountain West either. Its happening in various parts of the country.

A better way to deal to deal with this is to promote smart growth and boundaries on the growth to preserve the open space that everyone loves about the area. Limiting growth does increase the property values, but also helps preserve the quality of life.

I noticed that jazz never commented on my last post. I consider the time between the mining and the skiing to be an anomaly because for most of man's existence in Colorado they've been exploiting the land. At least with skiing they're using snow, one of "nature's renewable resources". If we could do away with mining, we could save government and taxpayers millions by eliminating pollution issues and the resulting government agencies that regulate it. Not to mention the quality of life issues.

But, just as population growth drives the demand for housing and jobs, it drives the need for resources and they have to come from somewhere.
None of that makes a bit of sense.

You bemoan the rise in real estate values and an influx of wealth into an area, yet you want totalitarian government to "promote"(take) "smart growth"(I've never seen government bureaucrats be able to do much in the way of smart) to restrict the amount of real estate available, thereby jacking up the costs, thereby driving even more "locals" away or causing them to sell out.

Makes no sense whatsoever.

I have seen all this nonsense jive in the Vail Valley. People rant about "open space", so government(taxpayers) or "non profits" buy up open fields so we can look at grass and scrub and it dramatically reduces the amount of buildable land available in the bottom of the valley, thereby reducing the chance at reducing real estate costs for "locals". Stupid, when we were surrounded for 50 miles in each direction by wilderness!

I don't know if people are living in a vacuum, but everything they use in their daily life has an origin here on earth, whether below the ground or above the ground. Colorado has a wealth of mineral riches to use and we need to get back to mining, not just for the raw materials and income it brings, but for the jobs and wealth it provides.

Too many Americans are in La-La land these days, expecting to sit on their butt in their "smart growth" communities, working "remotely", spending their time on "awareness" issues. Well that isn't a model for success going forward as a country.

Time to get back to producing goods and services of real value and time for control freaks and totalitarians with their grand ideas to get the hell out of our personal lives and what we choose to do with the fruits of our labors.

If I work my butt off and decide I want a vacation home in Colorado, I don't need some "do as I say, not as I do" know it all, laying the guilt trip on me about environmental destruction and blight across the landscape nonsense.
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Old 04-24-2012, 01:14 PM
 
9,830 posts, read 19,529,511 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by md21722 View Post
I agree. Many of the residents of these areas use them as second homes and want everything just perfect for them when they come for a few weeks or months a year. About all they do is take away open lands for year round residents and drive a demand for service employees to fill their coffee cups and bring them meals when they dine out. In that respect they do not bring talent to the area, but they do allow some restaurants (small business) to open year round or seasonally and employee people in the service industry who would otherwise need to leave the area to find work.
What is that your business or Jazz's what those people do and when they do it? I'm having a hard time seeing you or Jazz's qualifications to be masterminds for what people can and can't do their own income.

Jazz has railed for years about "transplants", yet his own family was a transpant and he's always openly boasted and never had any problem tramping all over the Colorado Rockies doing whatever he wants, whenever he wants and using whatever resources he wants. But if anyone else wants to, "Oh no we can't have that!", "You are destroying the landscape, destroying the environment, destroying the economy, destroying everything you dirty pig transplant!".

Sorry but it is hypocrisy in the extreme and it would be funny if wasn't that their line of "do as I say, not as I do" jealousy and envy thinking wasn't so destructive to the future of the United States.
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Old 04-24-2012, 01:24 PM
 
590 posts, read 2,078,557 times
Reputation: 418
I intended to show the clashing viewpoints. I think that Jazz longs for the time that was in between the mining town days and the ski town days, but find it ironic that he constantly reminds us that the ski towns are not real America, but omits the fact that neither were the original mining towns. I do think that smart growth is better than unmanaged growth. Planning and zoning help manage the growth that is necessary to sustain capitalism. Cities are living and change with time. Mining is necessary to sustain society. Not all the changes are viewed as positive by everyone, but there is no perfect world.
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Old 04-24-2012, 02:25 PM
 
8,317 posts, read 25,783,192 times
Reputation: 9132
Quote:
Originally Posted by wanneroo View Post
Jazz has railed for years about "transplants", yet his own family was a transpant and he's always openly boasted and never had any problem tramping all over the Colorado Rockies doing whatever he wants, whenever he wants and using whatever resources he wants. But if anyone else wants to, "Oh no we can't have that!", "You are destroying the landscape, destroying the environment, destroying the economy, destroying everything you dirty pig transplant!".

Know what? I'm pretty darned careful about how I occupy this landscape and how I use it--more so than most people. Funny, too, how you seem to want us all to adhere to your version of what the right or wrong things are to do here, when you no longer live here yourself. I consider that a little bit hypocritical.

I could spend another 4 or 5 paragraphs debunking a bunch of stuff you have posted in this thread that is simply not factual, but this thing has veered far enough off course as it is. I'm through with this one--it's an exercise in futility to argue with people about things about which they know a lot less about than I do.
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Old 04-24-2012, 02:30 PM
 
20,840 posts, read 39,059,222 times
Reputation: 19074
md, thanks for highlighting some of the issues, but we've down this dead end road with Jazz for years, he's simply intransigent in his dislike of the changes he's seen here in 50+ years. Though I understand that he and others pine for the good old days, change happens; I also pine for some long gone aspects. But it's the usual glass half full, glass half empty choice.

Pricing out the young people is not just a COLO or MONT phenomena. Try buying a house in most major cities, or anywhere near some of them and it's the same story -- if it's desirable (for whatever reason) it's pricey and the young must drive till they qualify. It's a major dynamic back in Fairfax County, VA, where we came from; it has no ocean or mountains but just try to afford a home there on a young person's income, or a young family's income.

So, if the OP wants to move to COLO, the door is open; it is the economics of the matter that will decide the matter.
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Old 04-24-2012, 03:13 PM
 
Location: Wherabouts Unknown!
7,764 posts, read 16,838,766 times
Reputation: 9316
Mfbe wrote:
But it's the usual glass half full, glass half empty choice.
Well, if the glass is half full, it is simultaneously half empty. It's always both.....not just one or the other.
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Old 04-24-2012, 03:25 PM
 
13,294 posts, read 25,467,231 times
Reputation: 20392
And an engineer would say we need a bigger glass.
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Old 04-24-2012, 03:27 PM
 
13,294 posts, read 25,467,231 times
Reputation: 20392
People don't move somewhere with the conscious desire to bring their talents and money and stuff to that area. They move because they want to, or because they have to leave where they are, or a job or elders calls them. Now, I think it's good if all people wanted to be good citizens of wherever they live, or even pass through, but I have not seen where it's written that people moving to Colorado are required to "bring something" to their new place.
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