Grand Lake for Vacation in the Summer - Is it Crowded? (Aspen: living, restaurants)

[SCentralNEGuy]

So you probably have heard me ranting and railing about how crowded Estes Park was when I visited there (on a 4th of July weekend). Want to take my fiancee somewhere for a week in the mountains. I assume even Estes Park is better during the week. So is Grand Lake less crowded? Are there other places we should go instead? I thought RMNP was beautiful and I know Grand Lake will probably have a fair bit of activity but as long as there aren't lines of cars and parking isn't hard to find I will be happy. If I should look elsewhere let me know but we do want wherever we go to be at least partially touristy - meaning good hiking, restaurants, horseback riding, boating etc are within reasonable proximity to where we stay. Thanks!

[Mike from back east]

Highly recommend this place, have been there, loved it. Just a short distance from the town and lake. You can stay there and play there.

[smdensbcs]

Originally Posted by SCentralNEGuy

So is Grand Lake less crowded? Are there other places we should go instead?

We're in Grand Lake 3-5 times a year, all seasons. I suppose it's more crowded in Summer, but it's never been congested to the point of being annoying. Usually too uncrowded if anything. I've heard good things about Glynwood Springs. Buena Vista is gorgeous, up there by the Collegiate Peaks (hiking) and Arkansas River (rafting). The nice thing about Grand Lake, Glynwood, etc. as compared to the ski-resort towns is they're a bit more authentic - touristy in a kitschy sort of way rather than a glitzy/glamour sort of way.

[vegaspilgrim]

All of the forests around Grand Lake are dead. It used to be beautiful, now it's a dismal looking place.

[jazzlover]

Said it before, I'll say it again. This is probably not the year to vacation in Colorado. This is the worst drought year since 1977 and will probably eclipse that for severity. As vegaspilgrim noted, the pine beetle has killed about 90% of the lodgepole pine in the Grand Lake area, so it is pretty ugly.

I just spoke with some folks who were out in the high-elevation areas of western Colorado this past weekend. There is less snow now (actually none left, mostly) in high-elevation areas than there typically is in early to mid-July in the high country. The mid-elevation of the forests are tinder dry--just looking for an ignition source. Streamflows are frequently as low right now as they would normally be in late August. The "spring runoff" is already over, what of it there was. Temperatures are typically averaging 10-15 degrees higher than normal for this time of year. If that trend continues, this summer will be hot, even in the higher elevation areas.

Normally, I have no desire to be anywhere else than the southern Rocky Mountains in summertime, but I'm seriously considering spending some of my summer vacation time elsewhere this year. It's that bad.

[SCentralNEGuy]

Originally Posted by vegaspilgrim

All of the forests around Grand Lake are dead. It used to be beautiful, now it's a dismal looking place.

Have any of the forests in Colorado been spared?

[smdensbcs]

Originally Posted by jazzlover

This is probably not the year to vacation in Colorado.

Unless you happen to get caught in the mother-of-all-conflagrations, I suspect most folks could still enjoy a rather pleasant Summer week in many Colorado mountain towns. It's been a month or so since I've been up in Grand Lake, and while admittedly not nearly as spectacular as it was in previous decades, it is still quite lovely. The sky and lakes are just as blue, the clouds as high and white. The mountains are still there. Many of the trees are dead, yes they are. Potentially fewer tourist/visitors, but hard to know for certain until you're there.

Most of Southern Colorado remains fully forested. Has the OP ever been to Northern New Mexico? If not, Taos and/or Santa Fe are very much worth experiencing. The Santa Fe Opera is remarkable, even for regular joe non-opera lovers like me.

[jazzlover]

Originally Posted by SCentralNEGuy

Have any of the forests in Colorado been spared?

There are three major species of trees that the various species of mountain bark beetles prefer. Top on the list is the lodgepole pine. It is a common tree at the 8,000-10,000 elevation range in the northern half of Colorado. It can either be a "climax" species in an area, or a "successional' tree that colonizes areas where other climax species have been logged, burned, or otherwise killed. Fire is what allows lodgepoles to re-seed (it takes the heat of fire for the lodgepole to release the seeds from its cones), so lodgepole stands tend to be thick and even-aged. That makes mature lodgepole stands a perfect host for the mountain pine beetle, which can kill whole forests of lodgepole in a serious infestation like we have now. Then fire cleans the dead trees out (helping the lodgepole to re-seed) and the whole process begins again. That is essentially where most of the lodgepole forests in the Rocky Mountain region are right now. The lodgepole's native range does not extend more than a few dozen miles south of US Highway 50 in Colorado, so the southern half of Colorado does not have the beetle-kill lodgepole stands found in the northern half of the state.

The second tree affected by beetles is the Douglas Fir. The Douglas Fir (not a true fir tree, despite the name) is often a climax forest species in the same elevation range as the lodgepole. Unlike the lodgepole, the Douglas Fir is found all the way from the Wyoming to New Mexico border in Colorado. Douglas Fir stands tend to be uneven aged with more widely spaced trees than lodgepole forests, and Douglas Firs are also frequently intermingled with other tree species. Thus, the infestations of beetles, while serious, often do not kill all of the trees. Still, there is a serious die-back of Douglas Fir happening in many areas of Colorado forests.

Finally, beetles like Ponderosa Pines. PondeBullBoxer31 are common mid-elevation trees in Colorado--in fact, it is the most common needled pine in the West. If they are in stands of widely spaced trees, the Ponderosa is often healthy enough to repel a beetle attack. The tree simply produces prodigious amounts of pitch that drown the beetles burrowing into their bark. However, when PondeBullBoxer31 populate stands where fire suppression has allowed the trees to become overcrowded and stressed, the beetles can have a field day killing trees. Unfortunately, a lot of Ponderosa forests in Colorado are of this overcrowded and unhealthy type.

In all cases, warm winters (which do not kill overwintering beetle larvae) and drought make for rapid spread of beetle infestations that attack moisture-stressed trees. Since we have had a very warm winter and now face serious drought, the beetles will probably really run rampant this summer.

In addition to all of that, spruce budworm is becoming a problem in a number of Colorado's high-altitude Engleman Spruce forests, and Sudden Aspen Decline--a not completely understood die-down of aspen stands--is ravaging a lot of Colorado's most spectacular aspen forests.

Colorado forests are not in great shape--and a warming climate (from whatever cause) and long-term drought will only stress them more.

[SCentralNEGuy]

Originally Posted by smdensbcs

Most of Southern Colorado remains fully forested. Has the OP ever been to Northern New Mexico? If not, Taos and/or Santa Fe are very much worth experiencing. The Santa Fe Opera is remarkable, even for regular joe non-opera lovers like me.

The thing I don't like from the looks of Southern Colorado is in addition to having to drive further (which I guess is not that terrible), it doesn't look like there is a lot of amenities and it looks like the weather gets much hotter down there and esp. NM in the summer that I'm not sure I want to vacation there. I would prefer highs of 70 or 75 instead of 85 like it looks like in NM. Santa Fe looks nice but when its 100 degrees in Nebraska I would rather go to something a good deal cooler. Usually you find this with higher elevation but I'm sure latitude plays a big role too.

[Idunn]

In a perverse way, this might be a good year to vacation in Colorado—before it all ends up dead or black.

That might be overstating things a bit, but I cannot imagine places such as Rocky Mountain National Park are going to look any better ten years from now. There is the chance one might end up dodging a forest fire, such as the recent large Hewlett Fire in the Cache la Poudre river canyon, but I still like someone's odds if hazarding but a week spent in a pleasant vacation.

Tourists begin seriously filtering into Estes Park mid-May, so that already under way. From Memorial Day weekend until mid-August it is a zoo, a small lull until Labor Day weekend, and then less busy until most vacate towards the end of October. Week days are always less crowded, but only in a relative way during summer, which will have anyone detesting crowds looking elsewhere.

Grand Lake is never as busy, and in many respects a more miniature version of Estes Park. Some place less tourist-centric—than Grand Lake—will have fewer tourists, as well as related services, so one will have to decide how they wish to balance that. July and most of August are the two epic months, so June on either side of RMNP will be less crowded. By the way, July 4th is an excellent time to be 30 miles beyond any trailhead and deep in the woods—unless wishing lots of activity most anywhere else.

Unfortunately the pine beetles that are seriously moving through the east side of RMNP have already done a lot of damage in the Grand Lake area. It is still a beautiful place, and as most of the dead trees standing for now, in certain lights it can all appear quite normal and lovely. But true tree lovers might want to think twice, or you may spend a good deal of your time gazing at the mountainsides in dismay.

To summarize: probably best to avoid Estes Park until late autumn, consider that there will still be plenty of activity in Grand Lake (if perhaps in measure to one's liking), and everywhere this summer probably quite dry. But if in Estes Park today, probably loving it.

ps. If from purely its magnificent location alone, one might wish to consider the Grand Lake Lodge for lodging; it sits high above Grand Lake, with expansive views. No idea on how they run their operation, the possible value, or if living primarily off such a setting. But if that lined up more or less to one's satisfaction, then probably one of the better lodging options. Although, one requiring a short ride into town, versus other options directly in town.