U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > Colorado
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Closed Thread Start New Thread
 
Old 07-20-2012, 08:35 PM
 
480 posts, read 1,019,654 times
Reputation: 491

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by bongo View Post
Please don't lay this on Colorado- point fingers at one twisted individual. In fact, this is a USA tragedy & my heart goes out to the victims & families.
I do not want to say this is about Colorado. I am expressing confusion and frustration that such a wonderful state with so much going for it could be home to so many Complete Monsters, and that so many tragedies could happen here in the span of less than 15 years. It really makes no sense to me. I always felt like my fellow Coloradans were ahead of the curve in many ways - we're athletic and have relatively low amounts of obesity and political corruption. There should be no place here for Anders Brievik wannabes.

 
Old 07-20-2012, 08:38 PM
 
480 posts, read 1,019,654 times
Reputation: 491
Quote:
Originally Posted by wanneroo View Post
I agree and I have personal experience with it. I have been a "role player" in shoot houses in SWAT team and various US government agency exercises as a side job. It is not pleasant and it's nothing like the movies. I've been the good guy, the bad guy, the hostage in darkness, chaos, flashbangs going off, gunshots indoors, smoke and I can say 100% if I never have to be in a real live gun battle then I would definitely prefer it that way.

The first time I heard an weapon get fired indoors unexpectedly(an AK blank round) I wanted to crawl up my own butt and hide in those first few seconds. I have no doubt that is anyone's first reaction who does not have that experience.

However your brain recovers quickly and it comes down to fight or flight. If cornered, I'll take the fight over death or disablement.

Certainly a lot of people don't have the training they need as CCW holders. It's the same as people driving cars. I find as an instructor, most people don't have the knowledge and training in vehicle dynamics or how the safety systems operate on their vehicle, to be a more complete and safer driver.

However, it's better to have some option rather than none.

I think we need to remember the largest mass murder in American history was committed by 19 people with a couple of box cutters and razor blades. They killed 3000 people in two hours on 9/11 and more in years to come from ill health effects and trauma. And those planes were the perfect leftist sterile environment with no guns, no knives or other anything else. And yet that happened and when it happened big government wasn't up there in those planes and couldn't help those people.

I think lessons to be learned from this include becoming more vigilant and responsible citizens in a dangerous world, rather than expecting our "rights" will always be respected by bad guys and if not big government will be there in 5 seconds. Second, in these times of facebook and texting, communicating with little handheld devices, we need to be more in touch with our neighbors, friends and relatives so people get proper socialization and more people need to ask "Really, how ARE you doing?". This guy had nobody and he ended up in a fantasy world calling himself "The Joker". It makes a good case for our society and how separated we are getting from reality, stimulated by electrons on the screen and not really talking to anyone anymore.

Regardless of this or that though, he needs to be responsible for his actions 100% as the whole thing is appalling and there is no excuse.
I am liberal in most ways, but I am fully behind the right to bear arms, so long as guns are put in the hands of decent citizens and not psychopaths. However, I disagree with guns on airplanes - that's the equivalent of a lighter on the Hindenberg.
 
Old 07-20-2012, 08:39 PM
 
9,817 posts, read 19,087,757 times
Reputation: 7546
Quote:
Originally Posted by lonestar9918 View Post
I am a so-called "liberal"...I'm a democrat. I am also a proud gun owner, and believe in the right to bear arms. Not all democrats are "anti-gun". I love to shoot, and I cherish the right to be better prepared in the event of a crisis.
Now that being said..I do believe we need some laws tweaked a little bit. Again - this does not make me anti gun or anti-2nd amendment for crying out loud.
1. High capacity clips for ARs should not be legal for civilians. Will the worst of the worst still find a way to get them? Sure they will, but lets not make it LEGAL for Gods sake.
We already did the clip restriction thing back in the 1990's. Makes no difference. Like this shooter, they'll just get multiple weapons or use other methods. Even a bolt action rifle can be cycled very quickly.

This guy was about to go for his Ph.D. and has his whole apartment wired. He would have found a way.
 
Old 07-20-2012, 08:46 PM
Status: "Not politically correct" (set 22 days ago)
 
Location: Western Colorado
10,645 posts, read 11,736,372 times
Reputation: 24441
Bad things happen to good people. It happens all the time, and it happens everywhere. There is no answer, there is no explanation. It is what it is.

Don't judge ALL Colorado by what happens in the Denver area.
 
Old 07-20-2012, 08:47 PM
 
874 posts, read 929,378 times
Reputation: 1013
Quote:
Originally Posted by sidburn View Post
I do not want to say this is about Colorado. I am expressing confusion and frustration that such a wonderful state with so much going for it could be home to so many Complete Monsters, and that so many tragedies could happen here in the span of less than 15 years. It really makes no sense to me. I always felt like my fellow Coloradans were ahead of the curve in many ways - we're athletic and have relatively low amounts of obesity and political corruption. There should be no place here for Anders Brievik wannabes.
To be fair, he was a Californian. He was just a temporary visitor to Colorado.
 
Old 07-20-2012, 08:53 PM
 
137 posts, read 194,255 times
Reputation: 175
Quote:
Originally Posted by phlinak View Post
Uh......no.

I know that you're trying to help our cause but you're hurting our cause.

I don't know you but I have been trained to acquire (see) the target before pulling the trigger, as well being aware of who or what is behind and around the target that I'm aiming at, because I am accountable for every round that I fire, as every responsible gun owner should know.

All of you wannabe cowboys who say crap like, "Yeah, if I had been there, I would have drawn down and taken him out." Bullsh*t. You are the kind of fools that give us responsible gun owners a bad name.

Unless, you have been formally trained to fire a weapon in a reduced light situation with tear gas wafting in the air, multiple innocents running around, and an unknown number of hostiles firing weapons indiscriminately, then you pulling a firearm and emptying 16 rounds in a general pattern into the area of where you think an active shooter may be is one of the most criminally irresponsible things that I have ever heard of and makes you at least as dangerous as the initial shooter.
I may not have worded it correctly, But I visualized my night vision from previous theater visits, and the people I watch out of instinct in a theater come and go... in normal everyday life in this setting. I can see detail and facial features even in this setting. I am pretty sure I would and could have made him out. I diddint mean to imply that I would shoot blindly... for, I as well feel extremely accountable for every single round fired. I just meant to imply that I would acquire the source (muzzle flash) of the device wounding a civilian, once acquired, I would visually evaluate the source and the figure to determine that the individual was in fact the cause of the wounded unarmed civilian. Once I was absolutely sure that the figure was a threat and that there were no civilians in my line of fire, nor would there be immediately civilians in my line of fire.. I would have made an effort to fire back at the threat with a release of suppressing fire more rapid than normal, knowing that the threat was in possession of a more accurate and powerful firearm. Hoping that my abundance would be a key factor in wounding the threat. Please do not jump to conclusions, sure I may have worded it wrong, but please do not read me as a careless owner because I am highly educated in marksmanship.
 
Old 07-20-2012, 09:02 PM
 
9,817 posts, read 19,087,757 times
Reputation: 7546
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob from down south View Post

On the AR-15, one might remember that during the LA riots, Korean store owners used such weapons to keep hordes of violent looters and arsonists away. During the aftermath of Katrina, these sorts of weapons were used to defend neighborhoods and property against roving bands of criminals. There is a legitimate purpose for owning such weapons, and all but a few of the millions of them in the hands of US owners are not used in violent crimes. It's interesting to hear people argue that a private citizen doesn't need such a weapon even while the federal gub'mint has been supplying the same sorts of weapons to drug cartels Fast-n-Furious...maybe someday our corrupt Attorney General will be held accountable for that.
There is definitely a time and place for those weapons, especially in a riot or mob situation. You never do know what will happen anywhere. We found out recently in my town why the police and fire department got federal grants for upgraded equipment. Apparently our little town in PA, apparently due to be listed as one of top 100 small towns in the USA, ended up on some al qaeda list of targets to commit mass murder and other chaos. Apparently the various federal agencies wrapped up that ring of terrorists overseas, however they did it. So hey you do not know. That could all be nonsense and total rumor, but it comes from good local sources that all that was the case. But if "Red Dawn" ever comes to town, we don't want to be caught defenseless.

It is interesting all of these obama supporting "ban the guns!" crowd don't seem to realize the obama administration willingly and knowingly bought and transferred tens of thousands of military type rifles to Mexican drug cartels, which were then used to kill a border patrol agent and hundreds of helpless Mexican citizens. Operation Fast and Furious of course was designed to be used as an excuse for gun control here, but the obama administration got caught with their pants down. I don't see how people can support those politics when their holy leader gives tens of thousands of weapons to the worst criminals out there. That's one hell of a bit of logic there.

All you have to do is look at 20th century history at the millions that went to their deaths in gulags and firing squads because they had no adequate way to defend themselves against roving mobs. Defenseless civilians die every single day from roving mobs in various African countries and in places like Afghanistan because they don't have any decent weaponry to defend their villages or houses.

People say it will never happen here, but then who would have thought some lunatic would have decided to be "The Joker" and storm a Batman film and shoot people? What if he would have escaped into a neighborhood with his bullet resistant armor. As a citizen, I need a fair chance against a guy like that. Not only meeting force with force, but overwhelming force against him.

I used to go to that theater often when I had long layovers at DIA waiting for people. Never thought in a million years anything could happen like that. But it did and I learned over time and with life experience, being prepared with the right tools and knowledge, is better than nothing at all.
 
Old 07-20-2012, 09:14 PM
 
1,188 posts, read 937,235 times
Reputation: 1968
I googled these, but came up empty. Sorry, will someone plz tell me what CCW, CCP, & CCL stand for? I am guessing something about concealed weapons?

I don't think CO has or should be thought to have the market on mass murdering crazies. I grew up in CO so of course I am thinking of my young relatives who were making plans to see this movie. Here in NY the Binghamton shooter has been a talking point all day. I bet in VA they are remembering Virginia Tech; in TX they are probably going down their own tragic list.

IMO, the psycho can and does exist everywhere...after all the planning and weapon stockpiling has been done, some amount of opportunity and chance still has to exist for a mass shooting to be carried out. A lot of variables could have made this guy's plan much worse or not as devastating...just as VA Tech, Binghamton, etc. also could have had different outcomes.
 
Old 07-20-2012, 09:53 PM
 
9,817 posts, read 19,087,757 times
Reputation: 7546
Quote:
Originally Posted by bridgerider View Post
I googled these, but came up empty. Sorry, will someone plz tell me what CCW, CCP, & CCL stand for? I am guessing something about concealed weapons?

I don't think CO has or should be thought to have the market on mass murdering crazies. I grew up in CO so of course I am thinking of my young relatives who were making plans to see this movie. Here in NY the Binghamton shooter has been a talking point all day. I bet in VA they are remembering Virginia Tech; in TX they are probably going down their own tragic list.

IMO, the psycho can and does exist everywhere...after all the planning and weapon stockpiling has been done, some amount of opportunity and chance still has to exist for a mass shooting to be carried out. A lot of variables could have made this guy's plan much worse or not as devastating...just as VA Tech, Binghamton, etc. also could have had different outcomes.
Basically it means a concealed carry permit. Depends on the state, but it usually involves passing a background check and taking a class.
 
Old 07-20-2012, 09:55 PM
 
1,188 posts, read 937,235 times
Reputation: 1968
Thank you wanneroo!
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Closed Thread


Options
X
Data:
Loading data...
Based on 2000-2016 data
Loading data...

123
Hide US histogram

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > Colorado
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

2005-2018, Advameg, Inc.

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top