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Old 08-10-2012, 12:05 PM
 
Location: N. Colorado
345 posts, read 760,963 times
Reputation: 284

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sunsprit:
"Those must be pretty mellow tame cows that you're fencing in with 2-strands. I've got several that don't bat an eyelash at 4 or 5 strands of barb wire and an electric hot wire at shoulder level. One steer is able to jump this type of fencing and we've had to pick him up more than several miles away where he jumped several more fences.
FWIW, two strands of wire doesn't constitute a "legal" fence, which is what you need to construct to have the legal right to a feeder's lien on your neighbor's cattle on your property. Check with you local brand inspector for what is a "legal" fence and what rights (and responsibilities) you may have to detain cows that are feeding on your property behind a legal fence."


Maybe they are mellow, including the various bulls he has had in that pasture over the years. They have lived along my property line with two strand of electric tape fencing, they have never jumped, pushed, scooted under ever. I have never seen a cow jump, and had no clue they could haul their big asses over a fence. I thought they would just push against it to get out but they have not done that either.
He has had full sized as well as the Mini Herefords, they seem to like to stay home
Now my goats are a different story and they can jump and clear a four foot fence and make it through any barb wire fence like it is not there

I know three strands is a legal fence but if he wanted to try to keep them out right now he can try two electric ones if he does not have the funds to put up a more costly and time consuming fence. He can always add more strands as time goes on.
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Old 08-10-2012, 05:05 PM
 
8,420 posts, read 7,423,651 times
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I am going to take the ranchers side in this discussion.

I have ran many range cattle over my young growing up years, and they would not go through a legal 3 wire electric fence. Range cattle are not really mellow animals.

If you have a steer, that is jumping 3 strand electric fence, or cattle that will bust through a legal fence then by law you are the one responsible to build a fence around your property to keep them home. Once your neighbor builds a legal fence, you are the one required to keep your animals out of his property, if they are fence jumpers or busters. In fact, he can hold them till you pay a fee for grazing on his property if they jump fences or break it to get in. This can get expensive to you.

The article above, speaks about city hunters going into an area they should not be. This was such a problem in our area back in the 40s, that as there was only one highway back to the hunting areas they put up a check station where anyone bringing out game had to stop. Every day 2 or 3 people would bring out someone's cow or steer they shot when on someone's range (ranches hundreds or thousands of acres). There were always 2 local ranchers to tell the police and game warden at the check point who's cow it was. Of course they had to pay the rancher for the animal, plus a big fine to the state. A few got real angry when they had to pay a lot of money, as they had shot a valuable registered animal.

One day a man brought out a mule thinking it was a mule tailed deer. The owner was at the station and told the man they catch young mule tale deer and put horse shoes on them to protect their feet. He called the meat processor that was going to be used, and told him not to tell the hunter and process it. The hunter one morning in mid winter told people where he ate breakfast every day they had eaten the last of the deer he had shot the night before. The owner had listened to his tales on the deer all winter keeping his mouth shut. He got up and went and loudly told the man that the deer he was so proud of was an old pack mule he thought would die that winter he was so old, and explained you don't catch young deer and shoe them. Everyone in the restaurant roared with laughter. From that day on, everyone called that hunter Muley.

We had hunters that would put their bumpers against our gates and ruin them so they could go hunting on our range. We had hunters shoot our locks off the gates. Some people have no respect for private property. On the other hand, they get real angry when you find their parked car 10 miles from the road and shoot a couple of tires out and cannot prove you did it. They have to hike out and carry the tire, and we would not let them on the property with a car and they had to hike back to the car carrying the tires. They don't come back however, nor do their friends.

The bit about city people moving to the country so they can let their dogs run hit home. I have shot a number of dogs, when I was young bothering our cattle. I shot one one day, that had just bitten the tail off of a fine registered prize winning cow I had bought at the county fair when it was born there. That made her value drop by 3/4s. The lady that owned the dog was angry when the sheriff showed up at her house following the license on her collar and was real upset when the judge forced her to pay hundreds of dollars for the loss in value of the cow as well as a high priced ticket for a running loose dog, and bothering farm animals.

When one moves to the country, they have to live by the rules of the country and not complain when someone's cows go on their land if they do not fence it in open range areas. Your neighbor is not being rude, you are not living by laws and customs out in rural America. They also have to realize, they cannot hike, hunt or fish, on private property without permission, or let their dogs run free.

I am just telling this to let you know the problems that ranchers get from hunters, hikers, and others that do not respect their property. That is one of the big reasons that so much of the country has locked hunters and others out.
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Old 08-10-2012, 07:25 PM
 
10,883 posts, read 41,316,699 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oldtrader View Post
If you have a steer, that is jumping 3 strand electric fence, or cattle that will bust through a legal fence then by law you are the one responsible to build a fence around your property to keep them home. Once your neighbor builds a legal fence, you are the one required to keep your animals out of his property, if they are fence jumpers or busters. In fact, he can hold them till you pay a fee for grazing on his property if they jump fences or break it to get in. This can get expensive to you.
Pleased to report that our high jumping steer has a date with a USDA inspector next month at our processor, so we'll have an end to his wanderings soon. For the moment, he's in a rather secure corral because the pastures he was in are so used up this drought year that we're having to feed him our 1st cut hay.

"feeders lien" is a right that somebody can exercise when stray livestock show up on their otherwise legally fenced property. The state does set a maximum fee per day that can be charged, and it's not a lot of money in light of the responsibility that the property owner has regarding proper care, feeding, and watering of the livestock to maintain it in good health and condition. Having exercised your right to detain the cows until their daily fee is paid for, you are also obligated to maintain them in good condition. Failing that, the owner of the cattle can sue you for not exercising due diligence in providing proper care for the cows. One vet call can easily exceed the value of the feeder's lien on a group of cows.
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Old 08-10-2012, 07:28 PM
 
402 posts, read 573,343 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike from back east View Post
Would it help if that neighbor graced you with a side of beef every year? Looking for the win-win and silver lining here....
Good thinking!
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Old 08-10-2012, 07:37 PM
 
10,883 posts, read 41,316,699 times
Reputation: 14050
Quote:
Originally Posted by oldtrader View Post
Some people have no respect for private property. On the other hand, they get real angry when you find their parked car 10 miles from the road and shoot a couple of tires out and cannot prove you did it. They have to hike out and carry the tire, and we would not let them on the property with a car and they had to hike back to the car carrying the tires. They don't come back however, nor do their friends.
Better than shooting the tires, which can put you at risk for the damages to the vehicle ...

is to simply unscrew the valve cores and hide them in a nearby location.

I know it's not as satisfying as shooting a tire out, but it doesn't cause permanent damage and is easily fixable ... while making the point about tresspassing. I'll tell the Game Warden or the Deputy where I hid the cores when they show up and it's not a big deal to install the cores and air up the tires with a portable compressor.
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Old 08-10-2012, 08:33 PM
 
Location: Everywhere and Nowhere
14,131 posts, read 26,325,360 times
Reputation: 6816
You could put up some "jimsom weed growers association" signs on your property.
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Old 08-11-2012, 05:39 AM
 
Location: OKLAHOMA
1,778 posts, read 3,490,868 times
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The way I deal with hunters is I have posted "Hunting Rights Leased Out" I do not but I guess it helps stop someone wanting to hunt think that they might get shot by another hunter. Well that is my reasoning. again, fence your property and make it a good fence. Laws here are the same, no fence that's that. Also in this part of the country if you don't have a no trespass sign then you can trespass. Weird laws to me.
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Old 08-11-2012, 04:26 PM
 
8,420 posts, read 7,423,651 times
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Quote:
Better than shooting the tires, which can put you at risk for the damages to the vehicle ...is to simply unscrew the valve cores and hide them in a nearby location.
Not if you don't want to take a chance the owners of the vehicle are around the vehicle, and don't want a confrontation. At 300 yards with a good scoped rifle (Mine was a 250/3000) which is hard hitting and very accurate when shot by someone like myself that was a very good shot, would never hit anything but the tires and cause no other damage. Especially after that car had destroyed a gate with the vehicle to get into the property in the first place, destroying a couple of tires was kind of retribution. I had to build a new gate, and install it due to the driver of that vehicle. Shoot out a couple of tires and make them walk out carrying the wheels, and walk back in carrying the wheels, the word got around which kept a lot of others from trying to break into the property.
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Old 08-12-2012, 01:22 PM
 
10,883 posts, read 41,316,699 times
Reputation: 14050
Quote:
Originally Posted by oldtrader View Post
Not if you don't want to take a chance the owners of the vehicle are around the vehicle, and don't want a confrontation. (snip) Shoot out a couple of tires and make them walk out carrying the wheels, and walk back in carrying the wheels, the word got around which kept a lot of others from trying to break into the property.
So it's not OK to have "a confrontation" when you damage their vehicle, but it's OK to have one when you "make them ... walk back in carrying the wheels"? Unless you confront them when they return to your property, what makes them carry the wheels back in?

Those hunters just might have friends with another vehicle that they have bring them out or back in.

At that, you're one heck of a confident shot to absolutely guarantee at 300 yards that you'll only hit a tire without damage to another item ... or, for that matter, a person who you just don't happen to see on the far side of the vehicle from where you are shooting. What's your backstop for that high power rifle?
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Old 08-12-2012, 03:44 PM
 
8,420 posts, read 7,423,651 times
Reputation: 18347
Quote:
So it's not OK to have "a confrontation" when you damage their vehicle, but it's OK to have one when you "make them ... walk back in carrying the wheels"? Unless you confront them when they return to your property, what makes them carry the wheels back in?

Those hunters just might have friends with another vehicle that they have bring them out or back in.
They are not going to drive in, when you fall a 3 foot thick dead redwood tree over the road that will keep them out which is what we did. We left it there till after the hunting season was over, and then cut it up for wood. We had an alternative road through the farm to the road so our access was not cut off.

Quote:
At that, you're one heck of a confident shot to absolutely guarantee at 300 yards that you'll only hit a tire without damage to another item ... or, for that matter, a person who you just don't happen to see on the far side of the vehicle from where you are shooting. What's your backstop for that high power rifle?
If you had been trained to shoot by my grandfather who was raised in Montana and had to become a very good gunman with pistols and rifle in the Montana Cattle Wars, with that rifle you would hit what you shot at at 300 yards on a calm day using a scope with range dialed in.

The ground is the background. Shooting from a hill on the other side of the creek shooting at a down slope, the tire sitting on the ground, the bullet will enter the ground right behind
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