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Old 08-26-2012, 08:10 AM
 
Location: Littleton, CO
3,108 posts, read 4,664,844 times
Reputation: 5389

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Quote:
Originally Posted by wanneroo View Post
What got us in the mess was government meddling in the housing market and bloated government spending. That has been well documented and educated people will dig those sources up and get to studying. It's not hard to do. It wasn't trickle down economics or the tooth fairy.

What is important is not intentions but results. We've had obama for 4 years. He said "give it to me" back in 2009 and that his Porkulus and Crony Payoff Act would drop unemployment to 6% and all of the masses of regulation would fix everything and we'd be in prosperity. Instead we have stagnated in the longest economic "recovery"(which nothing has recovered) since the Great Depression and in my opinion a depression that is merely covered up and made easier by our previous 50 years of prosperity.

So he has been a horrible failure and one of the worst incompetent presidents of all time and as an educated person, I look at results and there are no results. Higher costs for everything, stagnant incomes and a dog of an economy. They already have more regulation lined up for his 2nd term which will deindustrialize the US economy. Educated people would do their due diligence and look that up for what he is bringing to the party next.

We've also been dumped 6 trillion dollars of debt onto our children's backs, which I would consider a form of child abuse by those in our federal government.

Clinton was also a failure his first 2 years and then he adopted much of the Republican platform and wow look what happened. We also did well back then thanks to the private sector and the rapid development of the internet, which was a once in a lifetime game changer.

Carter, he was a failure too with all of his policies.

Top down authoritarian government never has worked and never will work. It doesn't motivate people. It doesn't inspire people. It doesn't create new products and services. It doesn't lower costs or improve service.

You think adding some creationist theories to 9th grade science is stopping development of interest in science? Science, like anything else that advances theories should be held with skepticism and challenged. As we have seen science over history has changed and evolved with time. As an educated person surely you would be familiar with the scientific method?

We just experienced Climategate 1 and 2 and we've seen how we've been scammed on "global warming" which turned out to be a big fraud, so why not be skeptical?
I am glad that you have the Fox News talking points all memorized.

The failure of the housing market is well documented and is part of the easy credit available to all which I alluded to in my first post. It was, indeed, helped by policies enacted by the government. These supply side policies (the idea that supply creates demand) were Republican in nature. You say that Clinton adopted Republican policies and the world got better, but you fail to mention that this, along with the easing of credit so people could afford the houses, the cars, and credit card lifestyle is what created the bubble in the first place. Then, with the banking industry awash in bad loans, the Bush administration had to create TARP to spend trillions to keep the industry afloat.

Being handed the worst economy in two generations and not fixing it in 3 1/2 years makes President Obama the most incompetent President? I will definitely disagree with that statement. What you are saying is that the president did not clean up the huge mess left by his predecessor fast enough. Like many people today, you expect instant results. I will say that the president definitely underestimated the time it would take to turn this ship around, but I don't think he is the most incompetent president of my lifetime. That award would go to the President who inherited the best economy that the US has had in a generation and through tax breaks for the rich and two wars (one of them totally unjustified) managed to add trillions to our debt, destroy our credibility with our allies, and leave us with the 2nd worst recession/depression this country has ever seen. Combine that with the introduction of the most divisive tactics ever used in elections, the legacy of the Republican Party is one of divisiveness and economic failure.

You credit the rapid development of the Internet as a game changer. Need I remind you that the Internet was developed by the government. In fact, the government and government spending has been integral to the success of our economy whether you want to believe it or not. It was government spending that brought the US out of the Great Depression (which, I might add was caused by the crash of the stock market and private business). Government programs put Americans back to work through the New Deal and made huge investments in the infrastructure of the United States (bringing electricity to areas via the Grand Coulee and Hoover Dams, as well as the TVA) that made it possible for factories to function and ramp up with World War II. While those programs only lessened the effects of the Great Depression, the US was able to climb out fully only because of the massive government spending associated with the war. In other words, a second, larger infusion of government spending is what was needed. Faced with facts like these, you would think people would agree that a second stimulus is necessary, but those on the right would rather cut government with austerity programs that have already proven not to work in Europe (but, hey, why learn through others' mistakes).

I will also point out that it was the government that spent the money to develop the space industry. Without the government spending and contracts, private business would have never created this industry which has spawned countless technologies that are used today. The government created infrastructure is vital to the success of business. A problem with conservatives is that they don't want to acknowledge the government's role in the success of business, because it might somehow lessen their achievement.

I am quite familiar with the scientific method, and I welcome its use in challenging today's theories. Using the scientific method only reinforces the idea of evolution. The scientific method, which you seem so fond of, is not being used by right to challenge creationism. There is no scientific explanation, no scientific tests, and no scientific basis for creationism. There is only the conjecture that something so complex must be made by a superior being because it is so complex. The argument is much like that of the pastafarians and the Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster.

Attitudes of the creationists remind me of the attitudes of the Catholic Church 500 years ago. Back then the scientists won out. Now the religious are trying to take us back to those days when faith dictated scientific truth.

The Republicans also refuse to use the scientific method when it comes to global warming. Scientists monitoring the earth know that for the past 327 months the average temperatures have exceeded the 20th century average, and that the average temperature has risen 0.8 degrees Celsius (the global temperature is warmer, therefore global warming exists). I must remind you that this is a global average and while some areas might be cooler (a fact that deniers will point out as "proof" of a hoax), the vast majority of areas are hotter.

And while it has "just" risen 0.8 degrees Celsius, that has caused more damage than we thought it would. Just because it hasn't risen as high as you think it should have doesn't mean that the earth is not affected. This small change in temperature is the snowball rolling down the hill, what started as small changes has created a momentum that we will not be able to stop.

Republicans have done a great job of politicizing science. They will trot out somebody with dubious credentials who will show "proof" that what they believe in is true, and ignore the work of the majority of scientists whose findings show something that they don't want.

 
Old 08-26-2012, 08:16 AM
 
Location: Wherabouts Unknown!
7,755 posts, read 16,459,702 times
Reputation: 9292
pheteroi wrote: My health insurance, partially through my retirement (but I pay a monthly fee, as well), has gone up exactly $0, thus far.

Consider yourself fortunate.....for now.
 
Old 08-26-2012, 02:53 PM
 
20,313 posts, read 37,815,914 times
Reputation: 18102
Davidv, thanks for that great post. I would add that upon entering office FDR's initial stimulus in 1933 paid off handsomely with nice job gains by 1935-36. Some of the work achieved with those New Deal programs are still with us: electrification of the Pennsylvania RR is still used by Amtrak today to power trains without any emissions from the trains themselves; the Skyline Drive scenic highway, which I've driven many times over the years, provides millions of people with camping trips, fishing and fall foliage tours every year while spurring businesses all along its path; and there are more if we'd just look them up (like the rural electrification you mention that brought major improvements to the quality of life of rural folks, and applied the blessings of science to tame the dust bowls and make farming less of a vow of poverty).

I would also add that when FDR gave in to the "cut spending" mentality of his GOP opponents, it caused yet another dive into recession in 1937-38 in what is unfairly called the Roosevelt Recession. Once war broke out in Europe our businesses picked up accordingly, and our massive government spending to fight the war energized our economy like nothing else. After the war, government spending to fight the cold war, win the space race, build the interstate highway system, construct an inland waterway system, etc, gave rise to the middle class that is now shrinking due to a lack of Federal spending for infrastructures.

Hoover and the current GOP proved that giving greedsters a green light to play fast and loose with capital markets while starving the government is a recipe for disaster. Reagan proved that trickle down doesn't work and had to restore tax rates to a higher level. FDR proved that what works is spending money on infrastructure which puts money into the hands of the working class where it soon enough percolates upwards to the rich hands as the workers spend every cent they get on necessities which in turn supports the business class nearer to or at the top.

We had a marvelous economy in the 1950's when the top tax rate was 91%.

Lastly, as if FDR isn't enough of hero, he deserves the Medal of Freedom for bringing back good beer.

So here we are, divided far and wide, not just in COLO.

I despise the lies and liars who have given us the upside down world we now live in, an Alice in Wonderland wasteland where greedsters on Wall St are heroic good guys, where ignorant fools like Rep Akin are the good guys, and where the most generous and benevolent government that ever existed is somehow an evil entity for which we must arm to the teeth to resist. Crazy, just crazy.
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Last edited by Mike from back east; 08-26-2012 at 07:47 PM..
 
Old 08-26-2012, 10:17 PM
 
9,817 posts, read 19,029,157 times
Reputation: 7541
Quote:
Originally Posted by davidv View Post
I am glad that you have the Fox News talking points all memorized.

The failure of the housing market is well documented and is part of the easy credit available to all which I alluded to in my first post. It was, indeed, helped by policies enacted by the government. These supply side policies (the idea that supply creates demand) were Republican in nature. You say that Clinton adopted Republican policies and the world got better, but you fail to mention that this, along with the easing of credit so people could afford the houses, the cars, and credit card lifestyle is what created the bubble in the first place. Then, with the banking industry awash in bad loans, the Bush administration had to create TARP to spend trillions to keep the industry afloat.

Being handed the worst economy in two generations and not fixing it in 3 1/2 years makes President Obama the most incompetent President? I will definitely disagree with that statement. What you are saying is that the president did not clean up the huge mess left by his predecessor fast enough. Like many people today, you expect instant results. I will say that the president definitely underestimated the time it would take to turn this ship around, but I don't think he is the most incompetent president of my lifetime. That award would go to the President who inherited the best economy that the US has had in a generation and through tax breaks for the rich and two wars (one of them totally unjustified) managed to add trillions to our debt, destroy our credibility with our allies, and leave us with the 2nd worst recession/depression this country has ever seen. Combine that with the introduction of the most divisive tactics ever used in elections, the legacy of the Republican Party is one of divisiveness and economic failure.

You credit the rapid development of the Internet as a game changer. Need I remind you that the Internet was developed by the government. In fact, the government and government spending has been integral to the success of our economy whether you want to believe it or not. It was government spending that brought the US out of the Great Depression (which, I might add was caused by the crash of the stock market and private business). Government programs put Americans back to work through the New Deal and made huge investments in the infrastructure of the United States (bringing electricity to areas via the Grand Coulee and Hoover Dams, as well as the TVA) that made it possible for factories to function and ramp up with World War II. While those programs only lessened the effects of the Great Depression, the US was able to climb out fully only because of the massive government spending associated with the war. In other words, a second, larger infusion of government spending is what was needed. Faced with facts like these, you would think people would agree that a second stimulus is necessary, but those on the right would rather cut government with austerity programs that have already proven not to work in Europe (but, hey, why learn through others' mistakes).

I will also point out that it was the government that spent the money to develop the space industry. Without the government spending and contracts, private business would have never created this industry which has spawned countless technologies that are used today. The government created infrastructure is vital to the success of business. A problem with conservatives is that they don't want to acknowledge the government's role in the success of business, because it might somehow lessen their achievement.

I am quite familiar with the scientific method, and I welcome its use in challenging today's theories. Using the scientific method only reinforces the idea of evolution. The scientific method, which you seem so fond of, is not being used by right to challenge creationism. There is no scientific explanation, no scientific tests, and no scientific basis for creationism. There is only the conjecture that something so complex must be made by a superior being because it is so complex. The argument is much like that of the pastafarians and the Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster.

Attitudes of the creationists remind me of the attitudes of the Catholic Church 500 years ago. Back then the scientists won out. Now the religious are trying to take us back to those days when faith dictated scientific truth.

The Republicans also refuse to use the scientific method when it comes to global warming. Scientists monitoring the earth know that for the past 327 months the average temperatures have exceeded the 20th century average, and that the average temperature has risen 0.8 degrees Celsius (the global temperature is warmer, therefore global warming exists). I must remind you that this is a global average and while some areas might be cooler (a fact that deniers will point out as "proof" of a hoax), the vast majority of areas are hotter.

And while it has "just" risen 0.8 degrees Celsius, that has caused more damage than we thought it would. Just because it hasn't risen as high as you think it should have doesn't mean that the earth is not affected. This small change in temperature is the snowball rolling down the hill, what started as small changes has created a momentum that we will not be able to stop.

Republicans have done a great job of politicizing science. They will trot out somebody with dubious credentials who will show "proof" that what they believe in is true, and ignore the work of the majority of scientists whose findings show something that they don't want.
I'm glad you have all of the PMSNBC talking points memorized.

The housing issue goes back to 1978 and further manipulation from fannie and freddie. There are no doubt many who should be held accountable, but the main issue is that government should not be manipulating the housing market. The government thought, well wouldn't it be great if everyone owned a house, but the problem is many people do not have the finances in place at that moment in time or have the financial responsibility to make it work. Private industry if left to function as it should, previously weeded those people out.

What president obama did was double down on the problems after declaring he was the solution. Keynesian economics and top down authoritarian government is like blowing air into a balloon with holes in it. All we have now is $6 Trillion more in debt and more bureaucracy. He didn't solve a thing, fix a thing, do anything of value except make it worse.

At the end of the day, he needs to stop being a manchild and own up to whatever problems there are and set to work as best he can to remove shackles from private business. Instead he has whined and complained for 4 years and played golf while his minions handed down new regulations daily that cost businesses billions every month in new compliance costs. No president has ever been handed a perfect country and real men that are leaders don't sit around and whine like babies about how tough it is, when it was them that wanted the job to begin with.

He is a utopian statist that believes in top down authoritarian government that minimizes the individual and rejects private property rights. Anyone that disagrees with that, all you have to do is listen carefully to his speeches and what exactly he says.

George Bush was handed a recession and a tech boom bust as well as an attack on our country that devastated our economy, so don't try to rewrite history like Clinton handed him some great economy because that has no basis in fact. I think Bush had his faults and he was too lackadaisical about congress and he needed to wield that veto pen and get a backbone on some of the issues. What I don't doubt about Bush is that he loved this country and with obama he has only ever shown contempt for it.

The government did not develop the internet. Some people in the government devised some basic structure of it, but it was private industry that built it into what it became. I've been online since 1985(Atari 800 and a 300 baud modem) and nowhere at that time has government ever been involved in any of it.

Government spending did not bring the US out of the Great Depression. It's funny people trot that old line out but it has no basis in fact at all. Every time in the depression when there was light at the end of the tunnel, the government would inject another stimulus or law or tax and it would further sink the economy. Roosevelt was one of the most destructive presidents of all time.

Myths of the Great Depression:

http://www.mackinac.org/archives/1998/sp1998-01.pdf

Many of the jobs the government "created" in the depression where much like today with obama's Porkulus bill, hugely expensive and with little value.

Global Warming has already been proved to be a total hoax. There is no warming of any note recorded from legitimate sources, no armageddon, no destruction. It's why "global warming" has now been relabeled "Climate Change". Back in the 1970's it was "Global Cooling". And since man is only responsible for 4% of CO2, it's impossible to change the climate. Any reasonable person that can add and knows basic biology can do the numbers and see it's a total fraud and in fact with climategate it's already proven to be a fraud. It's all about more government control and taxation and all that control and taxation doesn't fix a thing. For those that believe man made CO2 causes global warming, you should remember that every time you breathe you exhale CO2, so you can help save all of us by holding your breath.

The utopian statists use these so called calamities as an excuse for more control and government power, if only you'll hand it all over to them, they will create utopia where there will be free everything and everything will be fair. They are the masterminds who know all and know more than you little people.

The reality is they know nothing. obama, what the hell does he know? He bounced from mediocrity to mediocrity from high school to college to useless city liberal jobs "organizing", then spent several years in the illinois legislature voting "present", then spent his term in the US senate shilling for president. He knows absolutely nothing about creating jobs or running business. Not a thing and by his own admission, those people are the enemy. He knows nothing about the oil business, coal business, agriculture, health care. Yet he declares he knows all, feels all and will bring utopia to everyone.

But in 4 years he has done nothing but make it worse and it's time we get these utopian marxist bigots out of office because they are hostile to the American way of life and individual freedoms.
 
Old 08-26-2012, 10:39 PM
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
85,008 posts, read 98,863,560 times
Reputation: 31451
Depression revisionists make me angry. Apparently you have no family members who have talked to you about the depression, how awful it was for people.

Some of Roosevelt's programs gave people food, clothing, shelter. Some also gave people what even Mitt Romney refers to as "the dignity of work". My father-in-law was in the CCC. It gave him a job, and money to send back home to his family. He was also performing some useful work. Louisville Junior/Senior High, now Louisville Middle School, was built by the WPA. It's still standing, with some modernization. Those part-time coal miners couldn't have afforded to build that school. Just a couple of examples. My father was lucky enough to get a job in a steel mill during the Depression; he supported his parents and his adult brother. His father was a carpenter who never worked again after the start of the Depression. Prior to that, he had his own business. An aunt taught school and supported several other adult brothers and sisters with her salary. It was a time that called for drastic measures.

There was no recession in 2000 for Bush to deal with. The recession came in 2001, after he was well-situated in office. I'm not going to blame him for it. Things seemed to go bad here after 9/11, which apparently was two years in the planning.

Early 2000s recession - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The government certainly did play a major role in developing the internet.

History of the Internet - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I'm not going to argue Global Warming or whatever you want to call it with someone so lacking in the facts.
 
Old 08-26-2012, 10:54 PM
 
9,817 posts, read 19,029,157 times
Reputation: 7541
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike from back east View Post
Davidv, thanks for that great post. I would add that upon entering office FDR's initial stimulus in 1933 paid off handsomely with nice job gains by 1935-36. Some of the work achieved with those New Deal programs are still with us: electrification of the Pennsylvania RR is still used by Amtrak today to power trains without any emissions from the trains themselves; the Skyline Drive scenic highway, which I've driven many times over the years, provides millions of people with camping trips, fishing and fall foliage tours every year while spurring businesses all along its path; and there are more if we'd just look them up (like the rural electrification you mention that brought major improvements to the quality of life of rural folks, and applied the blessings of science to tame the dust bowls and make farming less of a vow of poverty).

I would also add that when FDR gave in to the "cut spending" mentality of his GOP opponents, it caused yet another dive into recession in 1937-38 in what is unfairly called the Roosevelt Recession. Once war broke out in Europe our businesses picked up accordingly, and our massive government spending to fight the war energized our economy like nothing else. After the war, government spending to fight the cold war, win the space race, build the interstate highway system, construct an inland waterway system, etc, gave rise to the middle class that is now shrinking due to a lack of Federal spending for infrastructures.

Hoover and the current GOP proved that giving greedsters a green light to play fast and loose with capital markets while starving the government is a recipe for disaster. Reagan proved that trickle down doesn't work and had to restore tax rates to a higher level. FDR proved that what works is spending money on infrastructure which puts money into the hands of the working class where it soon enough percolates upwards to the rich hands as the workers spend every cent they get on necessities which in turn supports the business class nearer to or at the top.

We had a marvelous economy in the 1950's when the top tax rate was 91%.

Lastly, as if FDR isn't enough of hero, he deserves the Medal of Freedom for bringing back good beer.

So here we are, divided far and wide, not just in COLO.

I despise the lies and liars who have given us the upside down world we now live in, an Alice in Wonderland wasteland where greedsters on Wall St are heroic good guys, where ignorant fools like Rep Akin are the good guys, and where the most generous and benevolent government that ever existed is somehow an evil entity for which we must arm to the teeth to resist. Crazy, just crazy.
Quite the contrary on Roosevelt, instead of a strong recovery, he piled on and on and drove the country down. I already posted up above the Myths of the Great Depression but there are plenty of other sources educated people can find detailing government meddling and failures in the depression.

obama did many similar things and here we are still in a malaise, not a recovery. Yet their answer is, MORE government, MORE debt. Just like their disciple Paul Krugman, their only answer is to spend more and create more debt. Keynesian economics never works because it doesn't create products and services of value people want which in turn creates economic prosperity and taxes to build all of this lovely infrastructure you lefties want. obama's answer is build roads and they will come, but I see lots of great roads out there with shuttered businesses all along them.

Hoover, while a great man in many respects, was incompetent and his answer to the Great Depression was tons of regulation and taxation. He was no laizzae faire president and that is a major LOL! Ever hear of the Smoot Hawley tariff act, that's about the dumbest piece of legislation ever signed into law. LOL! He jacked up taxes and smothered the economy.

FDR didn't prove anything except government intervention creates more depression. He never had a recovery at all and even with WW2 the country was stagnate. Even after WW2 and his death the country still lagged for years such the damage. Your economic theory of spending money we give to government in taxes to then spend on "infrastructure", much of which is wasted and that somehow peculates upwards has never worked, ever. You can have the greatest roads and internet cables in the world but if you don't have a vibrant private sector creating useful goods and services you have nothing.

Have you ever seen the roads in North Korea or Cuba? They have great, wide roads and almost no one on them. In North Korea people eat bugs and bark off of trees and no cars, but HEY! they have great roads.

The Free Lunch Myth:


Milton Friedman - The Free Lunch Myth - YouTube

When we had tax rates of 91%, all the rich did was use all sorts of tax shelters and loopholes to reduce their taxable income. And all that did was create much waste out there.

Where there are liars and users, let them be punished but just because this guy or that guy did this or that on wall street, doesn't mean we need to punish all and let government control everything, because the government doesn't know anymore than anyone else. The government is made up of people, all of whom are fallible and not all the best and brightest in the world.

Time to come back to Realville. Your generous and benevolent government has dumped $6 Trillion dollars in more debt on my generation and the ones coming after me. It's abuse and a lot of us have woken up to that. And that is the problem with the boomer generation, they don't give a damn. They've concocted all of these kooky apocalyptic visions like global warming and dumped an unbelievable amount of debt on us. Some, have their government pensions and goodies and to hell with the rest of us. What is a few trillion dollars here or there? Easy for some, cashing their check on my dime every month enjoying their "retirement" for 30 years, but a lot of us are out here working in this lameo economy trying to make a living and trying to figure out how we will live as our dollar loses value and we get taxed more and more to pay for you.
 
Old 08-26-2012, 11:14 PM
 
9,817 posts, read 19,029,157 times
Reputation: 7541
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katiana View Post
Depression revisionists make me angry. Apparently you have no family members who have talked to you about the depression, how awful it was for people.

Some of Roosevelt's programs gave people food, clothing, shelter. Some also gave people what even Mitt Romney refers to as "the dignity of work". My father-in-law was in the CCC. It gave him a job, and money to send back home to his family. He was also performing some useful work. Louisville Junior/Senior High, now Louisville Middle School, was built by the WPA. It's still standing, with some modernization. Those part-time coal miners couldn't have afforded to build that school. Just a couple of examples. My father was lucky enough to get a job in a steel mill during the Depression; he supported his parents and his adult brother. His father was a carpenter who never worked again after the start of the Depression. Prior to that, he had his own business. An aunt taught school and supported several other adult brothers and sisters with her salary. It was a time that called for drastic measures.

There was no recession in 2000 for Bush to deal with. The recession came in 2001, after he was well-situated in office. I'm not going to blame him for it. Things seemed to go bad here after 9/11, which apparently was two years in the planning.

Early 2000s recession - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The government certainly did play a major role in developing the internet.

History of the Internet - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I'm not going to argue Global Warming or whatever you want to call it with someone so lacking in the facts.
That's all great that government steps into keep people from starving but it doesn't create lasting jobs and economic prosperity. There is no revision because the facts of the matter was the depression was long lasting and nothing the government did was to make it all better. Just made it worse. Look at every major piece of regulation and taxation and every one passed has a negative impact. Facts are the facts.

As I said the government created some, not all, of the structure of the internet but it was private industry that actually developed it into a viable useable product. If private industry was never involved, we wouldn't be talking on this today.

Global Warming has already been shown to have been a hoax and all of the numbers manipulated. There is no evidence of "man made" global warming or any apocalypse that has been predicted by lefties for the past 40 years, whether "climate change", "global cooling", "global warming" or whatever they are calling it today. The earth has climate cycles and educated people would know that Colorado itself goes through 30-40 year cycles all of the time.
 
Old 08-27-2012, 07:51 AM
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
85,008 posts, read 98,863,560 times
Reputation: 31451
Quote:
Originally Posted by wanneroo View Post
That's all great that government steps into keep people from starving but it doesn't create lasting jobs and economic prosperity. There is no revision because the facts of the matter was the depression was long lasting and nothing the government did was to make it all better. Just made it worse. Look at every major piece of regulation and taxation and every one passed has a negative impact. Facts are the facts.

As I said the government created some, not all, of the structure of the internet but it was private industry that actually developed it into a viable useable product. If private industry was never involved, we wouldn't be talking on this today.

Global Warming has already been shown to have been a hoax and all of the numbers manipulated. There is no evidence of "man made" global warming or any apocalypse that has been predicted by lefties for the past 40 years, whether "climate change", "global cooling", "global warming" or whatever they are calling it today. The earth has climate cycles and educated people would know that Colorado itself goes through 30-40 year cycles all of the time.
I do not think Roosevelt's policies made the depression worse. And just what was he and the congress supposed to do anyway? Let people die? Because that's what was happening. The laissez-faire approach is "kill the patient to cure the disease".
 
Old 08-27-2012, 08:40 AM
 
Location: Wherabouts Unknown!
7,755 posts, read 16,459,702 times
Reputation: 9292
wanneroo wrote: Global Warming has already been shown to have been a hoax and all of the numbers manipulated.

It's not a hoax in my neck of the woods, at least not in recent years. Natures numbers are telling the story of a worldwide warm-up. Melting glaciers and icecaps, rising sea levels, new record highs all over the world. Eveything points to a warm-up. No sense arguing about it, becasue only time will tell if this recent warm-up is an abberration or the new normal.
 
Old 08-27-2012, 08:59 AM
 
9,817 posts, read 19,029,157 times
Reputation: 7541
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katiana View Post
I do not think Roosevelt's policies made the depression worse. And just what was he and the congress supposed to do anyway? Let people die? Because that's what was happening. The laissez-faire approach is "kill the patient to cure the disease".
Where did I say let people die?

There isn't a problem with helping people that are in that situation. And as it stood in the Great Depression it was more often than not a private charity helping at a local level.

However to cite the Great Depression as some great triumph of leftist policies is hilarious. It was those policies which kept driving the economy back down and preventing the economy.

Had not the government kept meddling in the economy and strangling it with high taxes and regulation, it would have been like the Panic of 1907 or 1920 where the economy would have recovered in months.

Roosevelt did the same thing obama does. They collapse the economy and slow down economic activity with tons of taxes and regulations and then hand you back some freebies like condoms or soup or a job to build picnic tables and then they can act like they are the great savior when it was them who compounded the problem in the first place.

One big problem I see in the world is people just always look at what people say, but not what they do. I think those that hail these utopians and how great they believe they are, should put their wonderfully pragmatic analytic minds to work and start examining all of those taxes and regulations that get passed in their name and the actual effect on people out there and what happened as a result.

obamacare is a great start. "Affordable Care Act", Unaffordable is more like it. 20 new taxes, 16000 IRS agents, health insurance costs are higher, millions of new dictates and regulations to be spawned from it, several Trillion dollars in debt to be added, etc.
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