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Old 09-19-2012, 01:44 PM
 
9,817 posts, read 19,062,182 times
Reputation: 7541

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Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzlover View Post
While frac'ing can be don effectively and safely, I disagree with wanneroo's sanguine assessment of it. People I know who work DIRECTLY in the frac'ing industry are very concerned about very irresponsible frac'ing practices engaged in by both disreputable companies and by field workers failing to follow safe practices and guidelines. I am not a fan of over-regulation, but there are clearly cases where the public interests and safety and not being protected. By the way, I'm no leftist, either. That said, at the end of the day, protection of water resources in arid Colorado has to be of paramount concern. We need every drop.
It's completely safe. LOL!

Yes there is always going to be some sort of incident or some problem but it's not the mass hysteria and total nuclear destruction people have made it out to be. You can show me any industry and I can point out where there have been incidents.

It's a relatively clean industry especially compared to even decades ago.
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Old 09-19-2012, 02:04 PM
 
Location: Wherabouts Unknown!
7,756 posts, read 16,483,879 times
Reputation: 9292
wanneroo wrote: leftists are against it because it means the USA can become energy independent

I don't think that's the reason that 'leftists' are against fracking. I cannot speak for those who you might lump into that category, but I'm against fracking becasue of the harm it does to the environment, especially to the water resources.
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Old 09-19-2012, 02:47 PM
 
Location: Colorado
4,308 posts, read 11,495,141 times
Reputation: 4387
Call me crazy, but I don't want my tap water to suddenly contain masses amounts of methane, an explosive gas. I also don't want billions of gallons of water (that we already don't have in Colorado) to be used in the fracking process and which we don't get back. Millions of gallons of wastewater are produced which then need to be safely disposed of. This wastewater also contains contaminants (some of which are radioactive) that are dangerous to the soil, animals and humans. I also don't want the various toxic chemicals that are used in fracking to get into my ground water, soils, plants and animals, eg: hydrochloric acid, methanol, kerosene, ethylene glycol, diesel byproducts. I don't want the dozens of trucks required to get all these components to the fracking operation driving thro my town and county, adding to the traffic problems, pollution, noise, etc.

There are non-toxic additives and water that can be used instead of all the above BUT there are no legal requirements for the fracking company to do so. The EPA can only state that these products are "preferable" to the toxic ones.

We need to know a LOT more about the fracking process, procedures and the side-effects.
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Old 09-19-2012, 03:20 PM
 
Location: Coos Bay, Oregon
7,142 posts, read 8,465,290 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wanneroo View Post
Instead of being panicked and hysterical, I just went out there and learned about the business and talked to people and found out what is really involved in fracking. The leftists are against it because it means the USA can become energy independent and leftists are not about citizens solving their own problems, rather they create a series of calamities and armageddon like scenarios that can only be fixed with more government rules and mucking about.
What a croc! You right-wings could care less about energy independence. You just care about immediate profits now, and zero about our future. Even with fracking, oil reserves in this country will run out within the next 40 years. Fracking is not energy independence. Its more like driving a 100 mph down a dead-end road.

If you really cared about our energy independence, you would be looking at sustainable energy alternatives. Rather then wrecking our environment and contaminating our ground water, trying to get the last few drops of oil and gas out of the ground.

Last edited by KaaBoom; 09-19-2012 at 03:33 PM..
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Old 09-19-2012, 03:38 PM
 
Location: Colorado
4,308 posts, read 11,495,141 times
Reputation: 4387
Easy guys. This is a very interesting, albeit emotional, topic so let's try to keep it civilised even when we're disagreeing with each other.
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Old 09-19-2012, 04:28 PM
 
9,817 posts, read 19,062,182 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KaaBoom View Post
What a croc! You right-wings could care less about energy independence. You just care about immediate profits now, and zero about our future. Even with fracking, oil reserves in this country will run out within the next 40 years. Fracking is not energy independence. Its more like driving a 100 mph down a dead-end road.

If you really cared about our energy independence, you would be looking at sustainable energy alternatives. Rather then wrecking our environment and contaminating our ground water, trying to get the last few drops of oil and gas out of the ground.
No they will not run out, we've got hundreds of years of supplies at a minimum and probably more. Do your research and get beyond all the alarmist nonsense.

We already looked at "sustainable" energy alternatives. Solar helped bankrupt Spain. Denmark's big wind project has turned out to be a bust. Sustainable isn't all that sustainable.

Natural gas and coal are clean technologies right now. I think it's great if we come up with some other alternatives and continue to improve technology. But right at the moment Solyndra isn't going to save us. We are $16 trillion in the hole thanks to baby boomer spending and we need energy so we can grow the economy and improve our way of life.
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Old 09-19-2012, 04:30 PM
 
9,817 posts, read 19,062,182 times
Reputation: 7541
Quote:
Originally Posted by CosmicWizard View Post
wanneroo wrote: leftists are against it because it means the USA can become energy independent

I don't think that's the reason that 'leftists' are against fracking. I cannot speak for those who you might lump into that category, but I'm against fracking becasue of the harm it does to the environment, especially to the water resources.
If one checks with the EPA, there are very few cases of water contamination that has anything to do with fracking.

People say it harms the environment, well what exactly does it do?
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Old 09-19-2012, 04:33 PM
 
Location: Northwest Indiana
804 posts, read 2,424,939 times
Reputation: 982
Quote:
Originally Posted by wanneroo View Post
If one checks with the EPA, there are very few cases of water contamination that has anything to do with fracking.
In fact there are no cases that are the result of fracking according to the EPA.
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Old 09-19-2012, 04:45 PM
 
Location: Colorado
4,308 posts, read 11,495,141 times
Reputation: 4387
Quote:
Originally Posted by richb View Post
In fact there are no cases that are the result of fracking according to the EPA.
Mostly because the EPA hasn't done any research into the problem. The report they're apparently currently working on is due to publish in 2014!

The damage it does to the environment is to release toxic chemicals into the soils and water supply. The poisoned soil is then used for plant growth which animals eat. Those animals end up in the food chain. It can also poison the groundwater supply which is where our drinking water comes from. And it can poison the air we breathe.

This is a very interesting and helpful guide to what fracking is and how it can cause permanent damage to your environment (EARTHWORKS | Hydraulic Fracturing 101). It's long but detailed and provided by a non-profit set up by a former Secretary of the Interior. It even offers suggestions for fracking companies on how they can mitigate the damage done.
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Old 09-19-2012, 05:10 PM
 
Location: Colorado Springs, CO
2,139 posts, read 5,498,058 times
Reputation: 945
Read up on the literature and avoid areas when fracking is ongoing or where people do not have mineral rights. Or rent and do not buy so you can leave! Tour the western slope of CO and talk with people affected by fracking.

The first-ever national EPA regulations on gas wells using hydralic fracturing went into effect late April 2012. Prior to that time there were no cases because this industry was exempt from the Clean Air and Water Act. There is a Wyoming case going forward at this time: Pavillion | Region 8 | US EPA . Comments are being gathered until October 16, 2012.
https://www.federalregister.gov/articles/2012/03/29/2012-7574/draft-research-report-investigation-of-ground-water-contamination-near-pavillion-wy


Some science news: Natural Gas Wells Leakier Than Believed - Science News


The BLM has some separate regulations: Interior Releases Draft Rule Requiring Public Disclosure of Chemicals Used in Hydraulic Fracturing on Public and Indian Lands

Disposal of the wastewater by high pressure injection back into the ground is as big or bigger a problem than the extraction.
How Fracking Disposal Wells Are Causing Earthquakes in Dallas-Fort Worth | StateImpact Texas

NRDC: Press Release - Report: Five Primary Disposal Methods for Fracking Wastewater All Fail to Protect Public Health and Environment


Some additonal info:
http://www.gaslandthemovie.com/whats-fracking
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