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Old 09-20-2012, 10:55 AM
 
Location: Bend, OR
3,296 posts, read 8,218,961 times
Reputation: 3316

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Quote:
Originally Posted by wanneroo View Post
Peak oil has already been proven false as discoveries now outpace the amount taken out of the ground in the USA.

We were told back in the late 1970's we would nearly be out of oil and instead the USA now has hundreds of years or more in the ground.
Just because it's there, doesn't necessarily mean we should extract it. The damage to the environment and the pollution it creates has been documented. We really will not know the effects of all this new fracking technology for years to come. And with the lack of regulation, it's even more difficult to know the facts.
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Old 09-20-2012, 11:03 AM
 
9,817 posts, read 19,062,182 times
Reputation: 7541
Quote:
Originally Posted by delta07 View Post
You're right, recycling does consume energy. But it still makes sense! In this throw away society our landfills are filling up at an astonishing rate. Much of that garbage, the recyclable materials, does not break down on it's own. We really need to consume less, but not sure that's going to happen. I don't have tv, but I was blown away at the number of ads for one time use products. Most of those products contain petroleum of some sort. To me, it makes absolutely no sense to recycle what we can, even if it does require a bit more energy to do so. One day, hopefully, that energy will be clean.
I recycle and have for 20 years but people need to understand that it again is not "FREE!", nor it is necessarily green and that it consumes energy and resources to make that happen. A lot of people/companies are being innovative in reducing their packaging costs, which also reduces weight and costs involved with transporting and storing such goods.
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Old 09-20-2012, 11:18 AM
 
9,817 posts, read 19,062,182 times
Reputation: 7541
Quote:
Originally Posted by delta07 View Post
Just because it's there, doesn't necessarily mean we should extract it. The damage to the environment and the pollution it creates has been documented. We really will not know the effects of all this new fracking technology for years to come. And with the lack of regulation, it's even more difficult to know the facts.
Well when technology improves to make all of that out of date, fine, but right now that hasn't arrived and we need natural gas and other fuels to stay warm and have a functioning economy. We have hundreds and thousands of years of oil, gas, coal, methane and we need to put it to use. The better functioning economy we have the more likelihood we can afford the time and money to develop new technologies. Right now the money isn't there because the economy has been regulated to death and energy costs keep going up due to regulation and restraints. If you look at when technology develops and advances quickly it is during times of prosperity, not during times when we are figuratively trying to find a way to eat and have a roof over our head.

I live in fracking central USA. I have concerns as one should and I ask questions but I have been satisfied that for what it is, it's a safe process and relatively clean and also a great investment in jobs and local development(rather than sending money overseas). It's also a great investment because of the many layers of oil and gas which they can use the same well pad for over decades.
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Old 09-20-2012, 02:09 PM
 
Location: Coos Bay, Oregon
7,142 posts, read 8,465,290 times
Reputation: 7703
Quote:
Originally Posted by wanneroo View Post
Peak oil has already been proven false as discoveries now outpace the amount taken out of the ground in the USA.

We were told back in the late 1970's we would nearly be out of oil and instead the USA now has hundreds of years or more in the ground.
Misinformation! Do you have issues reading charts? Peak Oil has been proven correct. It accurately predicted that the peak would be in the 1970s (Not that we would be running out of oil in the 1970s.) Which is exactly what happened. Again you clearly have no knowledge on this subject. You are just making it up as you go along. Again here is the chart.

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Old 09-20-2012, 02:26 PM
 
Location: Coos Bay, Oregon
7,142 posts, read 8,465,290 times
Reputation: 7703
Quote:
Originally Posted by richb View Post
In fact there are no cases that are the result of fracking according to the EPA.
BS. Please stop posting misinformation!

Feds Link Water Contamination to Fracking for the First Time
by Abrahm Lustgarten and Nicholas Kusnetz
ProPublica, Dec. 8, 2011, 9:18 p.m.

In a first, federal environment officials today scientifically linked underground water pollution with hydraulic fracturing, concluding that contaminants found in central Wyoming were likely caused by the gas drilling process.

The findings by the Environmental Protection Agency come partway through a separate national study by the agency to determine whether fracking presents a risk to water resources.

In the 121-page draft report released today, EPA officials said that the contamination near the town of Pavillion, Wyo., had most likely seeped up from gas wells and contained at least 10 compounds known to be used in frack fluids.


Feds Link Water Contamination to Fracking for the First Time - ProPublica

http://www.epa.gov/region8/superfund...Dec-8-2011.pdf
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Old 09-20-2012, 02:49 PM
 
Location: Coos Bay, Oregon
7,142 posts, read 8,465,290 times
Reputation: 7703
Quote:
Originally Posted by wanneroo View Post
Wind and solar is NOT free.
Didn't say it is, but its getter pretty damn close.

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Old 09-20-2012, 05:04 PM
 
9,817 posts, read 19,062,182 times
Reputation: 7541
Quote:
Originally Posted by KaaBoom View Post
Misinformation! Do you have issues reading charts? Peak Oil has been proven correct. It accurately predicted that the peak would be in the 1970s (Not that we would be running out of oil in the 1970s.) Which is exactly what happened. Again you clearly have no knowledge on this subject. You are just making it up as you go along. Again here is the chart.
I have tons of knowledge. My family has owned wells for almost 100 years and I endeavor myself to do plenty of research.

Peak Oil has already been proven wrong and your own graph shows it, look at the end of graph when oil production got ramped up in this country. Oil production went down for a while when the world was flooded with cheap oil from the middle east and now it is coming back up.

If you do some research you'll find discoveries have far outpaced production in this country and especially if let loose by the government production will climb even more.

There is no "peak oil". The reserves we are tapping into right now are only 2% of what we know is in the ground. As I said before the oil sands in Alberta have enough to power the world for 500 years using only 30% of what is there.

We haven't run out of oil, we are not running out of oil and will not run out of oil for a millennium.

Again people have to concoct these fairy tales so they can push their utopian statist agenda.
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Old 09-20-2012, 05:06 PM
 
9,817 posts, read 19,062,182 times
Reputation: 7541
Quote:
Originally Posted by KaaBoom View Post
BS. Please stop posting misinformation!

Feds Link Water Contamination to Fracking for the First Time
by Abrahm Lustgarten and Nicholas Kusnetz
ProPublica, Dec. 8, 2011, 9:18 p.m.

In a first, federal environment officials today scientifically linked underground water pollution with hydraulic fracturing, concluding that contaminants found in central Wyoming were likely caused by the gas drilling process.

The findings by the Environmental Protection Agency come partway through a separate national study by the agency to determine whether fracking presents a risk to water resources.

In the 121-page draft report released today, EPA officials said that the contamination near the town of Pavillion, Wyo., had most likely seeped up from gas wells and contained at least 10 compounds known to be used in frack fluids.


Feds Link Water Contamination to Fracking for the First Time - ProPublica

http://www.epa.gov/region8/superfund...Dec-8-2011.pdf
The word you use in there is "LIKELY".

There is no determination yet.

Even if so, one case is no reason to shut the whole world down.
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Old 09-20-2012, 05:17 PM
 
9,817 posts, read 19,062,182 times
Reputation: 7541
Quote:
Originally Posted by KaaBoom View Post
Didn't say it is, but its getter pretty damn close.
You did say that:

"pretty much free"

It isn't pretty much free or anywhere close.

Read your own source:

Trends are not historical data.

At the moment neither wind and solar provide or can provide all of the energy we need and it certainly does not do it reliably. The reason why we use coal and nuclear is because demand varies by customers and wind and solar has a mind of it's own depending on what the sun and wind decides to do today. Wind and solar have their place in different applications, but they are not going to run our power grid.
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Old 09-20-2012, 05:40 PM
 
98 posts, read 155,440 times
Reputation: 20
Good lord, I didn't mean to start a ####-storm.

I understand this is a hot topic and my primary concern is the aquifer since the chemicals used vary from company to company and they're a proprietary mix to that company. With that said let me ask a few questions about specific areas:
- Boulder and surrounding areas; Lyons, Jamestown outskirts (since they have their own water issues due to run-off), Estes Park (too far to drive to and from daily, but I'm curious), what's the talk about those areas and fracking sites.

Thank you and I appreciate your help!
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