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Old 09-23-2012, 08:40 AM
Location: Wherabouts Unknown!
7,756 posts, read 16,463,186 times
Reputation: 9292


wanneroo wrote: No I do not believe in man made global warming. It's been proven to be a fraud and I know enough now that it's clear the earth has many cyclical changes in climate.

Like you, I do not belive in man made global warming. Like you say, there exists a proven record of cyclical warming and cooling. Where we differ is that I recognize that in the previous warming cycles it is unlikely that the irresponsible behaviour of humans made such a huge contributon on top of the natural warming that was occurring. This time around it appears to be a perfect storm. Just to be clear, I'm not writing this from a place of hysteria and panic. From my point of observation I see very little hysteria and panic. Life goes on as usual. People are still driving the big gas guzzlers for example. In many parts of the country, people are still running their AC 24/7 for a good portion of the year. Corporate welfare to the the oil companies is still in place. If anything, we could use a little bit of panic for moviatation to get our rears in gear and start taking better care of the environment.
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Old 09-23-2012, 03:35 PM
68 posts, read 143,824 times
Reputation: 107
Default Ryan Freak

So........ who cares if we leak toxins into the stupid Platte River, the Gulf of Mexico is already polluted anyway. Seriously? Let's not allow it to get any worse. "Who cares, the plains are worthless" Wow!? This is much like saying I'll just dump my motor oil here next to the Colorado River, who cares about California. A person might care when they eat a grapefruit grown from ditch water in CA that originated in CO.
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Old 09-24-2012, 07:01 AM
Location: 80904 West siiiiiide!
2,867 posts, read 7,102,116 times
Reputation: 1544
[quote=Westcliffe;26217881] who cares about California. [quote]

You hit that nail on the head. If It were up to me, I'd let California fall in the ocean.
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Old 09-25-2012, 10:40 AM
Location: Colorado
4,308 posts, read 11,475,836 times
Reputation: 4387
The Boulder Weekly free newspaper has a very informative and pretty well balanced article all about this topic this week. Makes for very interesting reading.
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Old 09-25-2012, 09:45 PM
Location: Colorado Springs
18,961 posts, read 8,900,001 times
Reputation: 18341
I can't vouch for the accuracy of this, but I was listening to a report on the radio a couple of days ago, which stated that no American company has yet turned a profit on fracking.
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Old 09-26-2012, 12:12 PM
2,253 posts, read 5,841,779 times
Reputation: 2615
Wink Like a bad fungus

"In other words, the condensate and oil on Anadarko’s share of the Wattenberg alone could be worth more than $100 billion — a windfall that would be unobtainable without horizontal drilling and fracking." [1]

A recent article in the Boulder Weekly involved the suggestion for universities to do more research into the effects of fracking—not sure if this the intended reference. Nevertheless, in looking one will discover a fair number of articles on fracking in the Boulder Weekly.

One that may be of interest to those with a concern in this, is referenced here. It explains why fracking in the United States is probably here to stay—despite any consequences.

Given as example the Wattenberg gas and oil field, covering 1.9 million acres of Weld County. Discovered in 1970, by 2008 it had produced 4.2 trillion feet of natural gas. If the seventh largest gas field in the United States, it was nevertheless considered mature, without further prospects—until the advent of fracking.

Since 2009, billions have been spent to secure oil rights in the region. Reason why, with only a few new wells producing, in the third quarter of 2011 the Wattenberg field set a new quarterly sales record of 72,400 barrels of oil equivalent per day, a 22% increase since 2010. Just Anadarko petroleum, with 350,000 acres in the Wattenberg field, estimates it will have between 500 million to 1.5 billion barrels of oil equivalent.

One key in this is the "equivalent." Natural gas is often discovered in association with light liquid hydrocarbon called "condensate." While natural gas presently sells for about $2.50 a thousand cubic feet, crude oil and equivalent condensate go for over $100 a barrel. Put another way, with a lot of money to be made.

The Wattenberg field barely protrudes into Boulder County, but just one possibility. The underlying Niobrana shale formation underlies the entire Denver-Julesburg Basin, or basically all of northeastern Colorado, extending into portions of Kansas, Nebraska, and Wyoming. Although this article doesn't touch upon it, the western slope of Colorado obviously has fracking opportunities as well, being exploited.

Not to put too fine a point on it, but money is the real god in the United States. If they can they will, and there are precious few standing in the way of what is occurring. With inevitable citizen complaints, the government is likely to do just enough to quell any serious groundswell of opposition. But that done to our environment will continue, and if certain refinements in technique, only implemented to the extent increasing efficiency of extraction, or politically they simply must.

Whether skeptics will have it otherwise or not, globally we are at Peak Oil, being a very real reality; it will not be a pretty picture within a world accustomed to using ever more of this finite resource. Nor are fuels such as natural gas viable substitutes for all the many uses for which oil alone is able. Yet all the more energy from whatever source will be welcome, all else being equal, which of course it is not. If concern for energy alone was the question then everyone personally and collectively would be using far more of the options we have to conserve energy.

So make no mistake, for those making the decisions and collecting the profits this is above all about money. Colorado has seen this before in its legacy of hard rock mining which built a fleeting economy and led to the development of this state, and as well in the negative environmental results (such as polluted rivers) which are with us the descendants to this day. It will be no different with fracking. And with degraded soil and air and all else, those to come will have cause to question just what sort of ancestors they truly had. If taught or having learned no different, then surely repeating the process themselves with what is left for their progeny to enjoy.

1) 'Why fracking is here to stay,' Boulder Weekly
Why fracking is here to stay
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Old 10-19-2012, 09:35 AM
Location: Tennessee
12 posts, read 19,739 times
Reputation: 27
I agree -- since you seem to be on top of this topic, I'm curious about where you are, apparently Colo. Springs - do you know if there are plans for fracking in the area? I'm considering a move there.

Originally Posted by lalahartma View Post
Read up on the literature and avoid areas when fracking is ongoing or where people do not have mineral rights. Or rent and do not buy so you can leave! Tour the western slope of CO and talk with people affected by fracking.

The first-ever national EPA regulations on gas wells using hydralic fracturing went into effect late April 2012. Prior to that time there were no cases because this industry was exempt from the Clean Air and Water Act. There is a Wyoming case going forward at this time: Pavillion | Region 8 | US EPA . Comments are being gathered until October 16, 2012.

Some science news: Natural Gas Wells Leakier Than Believed - Science News

The BLM has some separate regulations: Interior Releases Draft Rule Requiring Public Disclosure of Chemicals Used in Hydraulic Fracturing on Public and Indian Lands

Disposal of the wastewater by high pressure injection back into the ground is as big or bigger a problem than the extraction.
How Fracking Disposal Wells Are Causing Earthquakes in Dallas-Fort Worth | StateImpact Texas

NRDC: Press Release - Report: Five Primary Disposal Methods for Fracking Wastewater All Fail to Protect Public Health and Environment

Some additonal info:
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Old 10-19-2012, 10:16 AM
Location: Colorado Springs, CO
2,139 posts, read 5,489,116 times
Reputation: 945
Yes, there are plans, and some test wells. Currently the city of colorado springs is worrking on figuring out rules and regulations for the industry within city limits. I'll get back to this post with more info.
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Old 10-24-2012, 01:51 PM
Location: Colorado Springs, CO
2,139 posts, read 5,489,116 times
Reputation: 945
Some Colorado Springs info:

Drilling in city parks? Council moving forward with oil and gas rules | council, city, gas - Colorado Springs Gazette, CO
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Old 10-25-2012, 07:24 AM
Location: Tennessee
12 posts, read 19,739 times
Reputation: 27
Yikes! Thanks for that
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