U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > Colorado
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 09-24-2012, 11:31 PM
 
Location: Colorado Springs
18,958 posts, read 8,893,958 times
Reputation: 18330

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by wanneroo View Post
Sure, I had no problem with the "secret" tape as it was right on the money. Even if it wasn't "elegantly stated", I couldn't care as adults in this country need to stop being treated like little children by politicians. Rather they need to be honest for once and tell it like it is. Yep that's right the palestinians don't want peace and a significant number of people getting federal handouts don't want the party to stop, so they will vote for obama, because obama loves to redistribute income.

It's obvious this woman had an agenda and I would doubt she had any good intentions at all. With people like stephanie cutter running his campaign who are outright documented liars, I wouldn't believe one word of this woman. Go find the tape, I'd love to hear it.

She is pro union and against developing the education system. These teachers don't want competition in schools because it means they might have to put more effort in and might have issues when it is demonstrated they are not getting the job done.

I had some great, dedicated teachers, but I also had several very poor teachers and professors which the unionized system covered for, even when their instruction was appalling and everyone knew it. The good teachers will not mind competition, because they are dedicated people always looking to improve and grow, but the bums see the gravy train coming to an end and a broom that might sweep them out. The teachers unions in this country have ruined education and that is why parents are sending kids to private schools or getting them enrolled in home schooling via the internet.

I'm sure we'll see plenty of more of the Romney ran over my dog, Romney yelled at me in 1988, Romney sent his dinner back to the restaurant kitchen in 1996 and made me cry, etc.
Everyone has an agenda...including you and me. And certainly that male Romney supporter who today, on the way back from Denver, had an agenda when he saw my Obama bumper sticker, pulled up along side me on I-25 in fast traffic and started yelling at me, then gave me the thumbs down signal, followed by the middle finger. As Rick Santorum said just a few days ago, "We will never have the elite, smart people on our side..." Truer words were never spoken by a modern Republican.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 09-25-2012, 12:28 AM
 
9,817 posts, read 19,033,460 times
Reputation: 7541
Quote:
Originally Posted by phetaroi View Post
Everyone has an agenda...including you and me. And certainly that male Romney supporter who today, on the way back from Denver, had an agenda when he saw my Obama bumper sticker, pulled up along side me on I-25 in fast traffic and started yelling at me, then gave me the thumbs down signal, followed by the middle finger. As Rick Santorum said just a few days ago, "We will never have the elite, smart people on our side..." Truer words were never spoken by a modern Republican.
Well things have changed. This isn't the old days with old school Democrats that veered into socialist programs but were still very much pro American. Those days are gone and the Democrats have morphed into a party of radicals that are anti American and with a celebrity President that describes the murder of our Ambassador and 3 other Americans as "a few bumps in the road". He's busy on Letterman and The View talking about his favorite colors and he blows off leaders of other countries.

You add in trillions added in debt, trillions added in regulatory costs and compliance, coming tax increases, unemployment up, people permanently out of work or not working as much as they want, energy prices up and so on and there are a lot of angry people out there not happy that we have a very smug statist ruining the country. And they have every right to be. This is a government that is fundamentally altering the USA and it's history and removing freedom by imposing it's will on everything from school lunches to healthcare to toilets to washing machines to big soda cups. People are tired of it and tired of the people that mindlessly support that totalitarian control creeping in.

I've reached my limit and while I don't get in people's faces, if prompted I let the obama lovers have an ear full in a rational, friendly way. A lot of people don't have the patience I do and I can't blame em. So you got the bird flipped at you, I might get there myself. It's crunch time for the country, there needs to be some urgency there. Don't expect it to get nicer.

And the other thing is people need to grow a backbone. Some of these people act like these politicians are God and they are these feeble little children. They work for us, we don't work for them. People are not always going to validate your beliefs or support you or give you a thumbs up. I have been called every name in the book, including on this forum. I've also had people give me their opinion when I have not asked for it. It is what it is. So what, you got the finger, you don't think I have? You don't think I've had raving loon leftists in my face before?

The funny thing about all this is you would never see a Romney for President ad like this and if you did he would be completely savaged in the media.

I should probably make one myself with me boo hoo hooing and in tears about the one time at a roundtable with obama he told me to shut up and then he ran my dog over and laughed.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-25-2012, 03:57 AM
 
16,438 posts, read 18,529,101 times
Reputation: 9490
Quote:
Originally Posted by wanneroo View Post
Sure, I had no problem with the "secret" tape as it was right on the money.
Same here. The truth hurts.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-25-2012, 07:29 AM
 
Location: Fort Collins, CO
166 posts, read 358,108 times
Reputation: 288
You realize that Romney's 47% of the lazy, 'entitled' rabble include medicare and social security recipients? Welcome to the 'welfare class' all you folks who worked all your lives and paid into that system...! Where's the outrage, hard-working Americans ?? He just called all your parents 'dependent on government hand-outs'...... wake up people
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-25-2012, 11:46 AM
 
9,817 posts, read 19,033,460 times
Reputation: 7541
Quote:
Originally Posted by Juliemac View Post
You realize that Romney's 47% of the lazy, 'entitled' rabble include medicare and social security recipients? Welcome to the 'welfare class' all you folks who worked all your lives and paid into that system...! Where's the outrage, hard-working Americans ?? He just called all your parents 'dependent on government hand-outs'...... wake up people
Most of your paragraph is your own words, so lets keep that in mind.

The truth of the matter is that 50% of households in the US receive some kind of federal assistance and the bottom 50% of all taxpayers pay 2% of the entire federal income tax burden. 50 million people alone are on food stamps. A lot of people with all of the tax credits and deductions they get, such as the earned income credit, don't pay a dime and actually get money back.

If you recall what Romney was talking about in the "secret tape" was that his message of lowering taxes and getting people back to work is probably not going to appeal to those people. Which is true, many of those people are not interested in that. I've talked to several obama lovers recently who are going to vote for him because they want more programs to add to the ones they already have. Why work when you can get years of unemployment, welfare, healthcare, food stamps, utility assistance, rent assistance, FHA loans? I know of a couple that proudly gets WIC and other benefits, despite the fact they make $85K a year and drive a $50K BMW X5. How they did it was they put down the husbands base income of $30k and ignored the overtime and bonuses he gets. The WIC office even knowingly did it. They don't want Romney because it might eventually mean they will have to pay for groceries at the supermarket the old fashioned way, with cash.

If social security was a private program, whoever was running it would be in jail because it is a bernie madoff type scheme and it's going to run out of money. There is no "social security trust fund". All social security taxes go into the general fund and get paid out that year for whatever the governments obligations. Whatever people paid in the past went to those people on benefits at the time. The problem is the number of people on the program and government obligations in general, way exceed what they take in these days, so the government needs to prioritize it's finances, which clearly it is not doing if you look at the federal budget. It is predicted by the CBO if things continue as they are, the entire US economy will cease to function by 2028.

Ultimately you run out of people's pockets to pick, so things have to change and clearly a lot of people are willing to ride the bandwagon right over the cliff. Some of us are not interested in taking that ride with you.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-25-2012, 12:59 PM
 
Location: Denver, CO
51 posts, read 124,436 times
Reputation: 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by wanneroo View Post
I've talked to several obama lovers recently who are going to vote for him because they want more programs to add to the ones they already have. Why work when you can get years of unemployment, welfare, healthcare, food stamps, utility assistance, rent assistance, FHA loans?
This is SO very true! There are many people who abuse the system, have no value for hard work, and do not ever care to expend energy to better themselves.

Whenever I explain this argument to liberals, they always bring up the disabled. And, yes, there are lots of disabled people who do truly need support, such as those with severe MS or brain injuries who cannot work as they used to (and feel a sense of intense frustration!). But there are a lot of people in inner cities and rural areas who choose to live off the gov't because it's easier. Oh, and they get a free phone, to boot.

I detest paying taxes when I know the money is going to people who are able bodied but choose to do nothing with their lives. It's easy to live in your ivory tower or rich suburb and "feel" for the poor. But until you see who some of these people are and how they take advantage of the system (BY ACTUALLY TALKING TO THEM OR OVERHEARING THEIR CONVERSATIONS), you have NO idea what's really going on.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-25-2012, 01:07 PM
 
Location: Colorado
1,969 posts, read 1,902,200 times
Reputation: 1723
Romney and his pals want plutocracy, same as Benson and other Republican operatives. The attack on teachers is part of the war on working people and their defenders, the unions. This is just another assault.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-25-2012, 01:36 PM
 
9,817 posts, read 19,033,460 times
Reputation: 7541
Quote:
Originally Posted by KatInTheHat View Post
This is SO very true! There are many people who abuse the system, have no value for hard work, and do not ever care to expend energy to better themselves.

Whenever I explain this argument to liberals, they always bring up the disabled. And, yes, there are lots of disabled people who do truly need support, such as those with severe MS or brain injuries who cannot work as they used to (and feel a sense of intense frustration!). But there are a lot of people in inner cities and rural areas who choose to live off the gov't because it's easier. Oh, and they get a free phone, to boot.

I detest paying taxes when I know the money is going to people who are able bodied but choose to do nothing with their lives. It's easy to live in your ivory tower or rich suburb and "feel" for the poor. But until you see who some of these people are and how they take advantage of the system (BY ACTUALLY TALKING TO THEM OR OVERHEARING THEIR CONVERSATIONS), you have NO idea what's really going on.
As Ronald Reagan said, we are obligated to help those that cannot help themselves. As a society I don't see the problem with helping those, even permanently if need be, if they have some sort of disability or perhaps they have fallen on hard times and need food and shelter and need a hand to get back on their feet.

But this desire by some to have a permanent class of able bodied welfare recipients I don't understand. Leftists always talk about "sustainability". Well is such a class of millions of people "sustainable"? Looking at the financials in Europe and here in the USA that doesn't appear to be the case.

The other thing is that to survive in this world market you have to have some desire and heart to succeed and as the years go on Americans are producing less and less of value and more and more of government and welfare and that isn't going to win the battle on the world stage. I think a lot of Americans are taking their previous prosperity and success for granted. But like they say with race car drivers you are only as good as your last race.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-25-2012, 01:41 PM
 
9,817 posts, read 19,033,460 times
Reputation: 7541
Quote:
Originally Posted by artisan4 View Post
Romney and his pals want plutocracy, same as Benson and other Republican operatives. The attack on teachers is part of the war on working people and their defenders, the unions. This is just another assault.
Well look at the teachers in Chicago and how they held the city hostage.

The children and the parents of the children are the customers of the education system and they want to have some control over the product they are having to pay for with taxes.

I can't see the problem with that.

In my life I saw teacher unions cover up for appalling teachers and that isn't fair to the end user, the children, nor the people that pay with property taxes or sales taxes.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-25-2012, 04:09 PM
 
Location: Littleton, CO
3,108 posts, read 4,665,640 times
Reputation: 5389
Quote:
Originally Posted by wanneroo View Post
Well look at the teachers in Chicago and how they held the city hostage.

The children and the parents of the children are the customers of the education system and they want to have some control over the product they are having to pay for with taxes.

I can't see the problem with that.

In my life I saw teacher unions cover up for appalling teachers and that isn't fair to the end user, the children, nor the people that pay with property taxes or sales taxes.
The argument against public schools and public school teachers are so contradictory that it is not even funny. Add to this the fact that since everybody has been to school, they feel like they are experts. Just because I know how to drive, doesn't mean that I can design a car. Everyone has anecdotal evidence that they apply to the education, but anecdotes are not solid evidence. You say you have seen poor teachers protected by the unions, but how do you know the union stepped in? Most likely the reason the teacher stays in his or her job is because of administrative apathy.

Teachers can be fired, but they must be fired using the due process set forth in the contract that was agreed to by the district and the union.

It is quite easy to fire a teacher for misconduct.

Teachers in Colorado are on probation for 3 years during which time his or her contract may not be renewed for any cause. Failure to get rid of a bad teacher during this time is evidence of poor school management.

If a teacher consistently underperforms in his or her job, it is up to the administration to document the shortcomings and build a case for firing the teacher. Failure to take the steps necessary to fire an underperforming teacher is negligence on behalf of the administration.

The main reason why poor teachers are retained in schools is because the management cannot be bothered to take the necessary steps to replace them. How is that the fault of the teacher or the union?

Secondly, the party that advocates for personal responsibility, throws that responsibility out the window when it comes for holding kids accountable. Standardized tests are used to measure the teacher more than the student. There are no consequences for the students if they do poorly. Put in accountability for students, and you will see test scores rise.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:


Options
X
Data:
Loading data...
Based on 2000-2016 data
Loading data...

123
Hide US histogram

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > Colorado
View detailed profiles of:
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

2005-2018, Advameg, Inc.

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top