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Old 10-04-2012, 05:22 PM
 
1,512 posts, read 1,532,393 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wanneroo View Post
To me statism and redistribution of wealth is evil and fails everywhere tried and obama is just the latest incompetent person to go that route. The past 4 years of Porkulus(stimulus and keynesian economics), regulations, taxes and more government control has lead the country marching into depression like numbers with no economic growth. It fails everywhere tried. Europe went that route and they are in a major bit of turmoil right now and we are following.
I'm with you, but you're seeing a distinction where no distinction exists. We have been an authentically fascist economy since WWII. Most people call it state-capitalism. In the U.S., we call it capitalism, but it's fascism. Obviously, it's not "Nazis abusing Jews" fascism; it's just that to keep the economy going, "surplus production" is recycled from labor via taxes to government to corporations via subsidies to labor again. That's the foundation of our economy.

The pork has been there forever. The difference is that the Republicans use the military to spend the surplus production. For example, Reagan did the Star Wars program and attacked Nicaragua (Iran-contra), Libya, and Grenada (of Eastwood's Heartbreak Ridge fame). Consistent with the Republican preference for top-down spending, he also tripled the prison population, which eliminates non-productive labor from the open market and subsidizes the prison system. Not only does that create jobs, but it keeps the unemployment rate down.

When Ron Paul lost, you and I lost. Now, our choice is fascism through helping people or fascism through killing and imprisoning people. This is why Romney wants to give more to the military.

Last edited by The Homogenizer; 10-04-2012 at 06:36 PM..
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Old 10-04-2012, 08:03 PM
 
Location: Wherabouts Unknown!
7,756 posts, read 16,499,096 times
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josseppie wrote: On gay rights all the polls show its a generational issue as people from my generation down (Generation X) don't care about it so in about 10 years things will be a lot different with gay marriage more accepted no matter who is president.

Not IF the supreme court consists of a right leaning majority. EG: A young guy like John Roberts ( he's pretty middle of the road ) is likley to be on the supreme court for another 30 years or longer. I believe that ALL future appointees will be fairly young, so any future appointments will have a long term effect. I know you are an optimist by nature, but this is no place to revel in unwarranted optimism. If people fall for Romneys fairy tales and vote him into office, he's NOT going to do any better with the economy than Obama anyway, because the president has very little control of the economy. Bush was president at a bad time, and Clinton presided during a good time. Neither of them had a major influence in the direction of the economy. The federal reserve controls the economy. This focus on whose better for the economy is a smoke screen to keep people in the dark about the evil power of the federal reserve.
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Old 10-04-2012, 10:58 PM
 
Location: Denver, CO
51 posts, read 125,056 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CosmicWizard View Post
If people fall for Romneys fairy tales and vote him into office, he's NOT going to do any better with the economy than Obama anyway.

Au contraire, sir! Romney is a businessman and a huge proponent of small business. His plan to lower taxes for small businesses will build confidence so they can hire more people and get the economy moving again. Obama is pro government and has never worked in the private sector. You may believe YOUR fairy tales, but I think last night's debate showed who was on his game (prepared, passionate, and out to win) and who is the phony.
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Old 10-04-2012, 11:07 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KatInTheHat View Post
Au contraire, sir! Romney is a businessman and a huge proponent of small business. His plan to lower taxes for small businesses will build confidence so they can hire more people and get the economy moving again.
As a businessman, he's a proponent of his business since business is a form of civilized war. And if you think there is any such thing as a proponent of small business these days, all you must do to purge yourself of that false conclusion is to spend an hour driving around your neighborhood; you will notice that there is an unusually small number of large corporations supplying the small businesses. The explanation for that is that our government, both Dems and Reps, favor big corporations, and those big corporations do the producing. The small businesses that we see are simply the clients of those big corporations; they're store fronts. The large corporations simply outsource the retail end of their businesses to the population, and we mistakenly believe that those are the significant small businesses, but they're just dependants on the big corporations.

Last edited by The Homogenizer; 10-04-2012 at 11:40 PM..
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Old 10-05-2012, 12:02 PM
 
20,379 posts, read 37,943,998 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Homogenizer View Post
As a businessman, he's a proponent of his business since business is a form of civilized war. And if you think there is any such thing as a proponent of small business these days, all you must do to purge yourself of that false conclusion is to spend an hour driving around your neighborhood; you will notice that there is an unusually small number of large corporations supplying the small businesses. The explanation for that is that our government, both Dems and Reps, favor big corporations, and those big corporations do the producing. The small businesses that we see are simply the clients of those big corporations; they're store fronts. The large corporations simply outsource the retail end of their businesses to the population, and we mistakenly believe that those are the significant small businesses, but they're just dependants on the big corporations.
This is amply demonstrated in any number of ways, I'll put forth two examples:
1. Drive down Academy Blvd from exit 150 to as far south as you want to go. Count the number of chain eateries run by massive firms, count the number of mom/pop local independent eateries. Who wins? I know that mom/pop can "franchise" an outlet from the biggies, but that's hardly "small business" in my book, and my local McDonalds is part of a firm that has at least TEN Mickey D's in the area. Small business is largely a joke, and a sacred cow in DC politics. When I was buying PCs for the Army, we hated when some person came in the door and all but demanded we buy from him/her/them because they were a small business, or a woman-owned small business, or a minority-owned small business. All these people did was waste our time and make drive-by deliveries of PCs on our freight dock, that's it. We ignored them and dealt with the major dealers that were listed on the GSA Schedule. We did have one "woman-owned small business" that we dealt with for two years. The firm was run by a couple, a retired Navy Captain (O-6) and his wife. We visited their business, the wife babysat the kids and grandkids all day and made a few business calls on clients, but the retired Navy officer and his son RAN the company. The wife was a facade for the sake of milking the federal small business program.

2. The peanut butter (PB) recall this past week or so. There is ONE plant in NM that packs all sorts of PB products for sale under scores of corporate names, from big supermarket chains to numerous labels you'll find in farmers markets, craft fairs, yuppified boutiques, catalogs and on-line. If people think all these boutique PB products sold at high prices are made in local mom/pop kitchens then they've bought into a myth. Do people really think that those "private label" products are made in actual factories owned by Wal-Mart, K-Mart, Target, Kroger, et al. They are NOT. Sears sells all sorts of hardware and appliances with their name on them, but they are made to spec by factories that churn out tools and appliances with many labels on them.

Basically, politicians who throw around the words "small business" are pandering to an image of the small town store owner, but most of them were put out of business long ago as every major retail industry was "rolled up" during the movement to big box stores. How many mom/pop hardware stores do you see, how many mom/pop booksellers, toy stores, shoe stores, clothing stores, office supply stores, etc. Wal-Mart has destroyed tens of thousands of small mom/pop businesses as they've rolled up all of these retail lines and many more.

I remember when we had small office supply stores, maybe 30 years ago. They all sold the SAME stuff. They'd give you an inch thick high-gloss catalog that contained everything any office could ever need, and at fairly high prices too. But every office supply store had the SAME catalog, yes, the covers and the page sequence were different, but it was the same stuff at the same prices. Those mom/pop office supply stores didn't have one whit of difference between them....and they all got rolled up by big box chains like Office Max, Staples, etc.

A lot of the catalogs we get in the mail today are the same; multiple catalogs for cheese, linens, housewares, etc, all from different companies, many we've never heard of, all selling the same products at same/similar prices. There are massive warehouses along the interstates in what is called the "third party logistics" (3PL) business. Big factories churn out stuff, under many labels, then ship it to these massive 3PL warehouses from which your order is "fulfilled." A good example of 3PL is that IBM stocks it repairs parts in a massive warehouse in Memphis that is owned/operated by FEDEX. IBM routes orders for parts to that FEDEX site for extremely fast dispatch by FEDEX, works like a charm too. In the same vein, your order to Amazon for a book or toaster or whatever is filled in the same manner via a strategically located 3PL site. Amazon may own an actual warehouse somewhere, but Amazon is largely a superb on-line catalog business using 3PL to fill orders. I've even had Amazon sub-let one of my orders to a small 3PL firm in MA.

Small business is mostly a political myth; pols don't give a damn about the local dudes who mow lawns, wash windows, put a roof on your home or run your local service-oriented business.
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Last edited by Mike from back east; 10-05-2012 at 12:18 PM..
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Old 10-05-2012, 12:16 PM
 
Location: Pueblo - Colorado's Second City
12,106 posts, read 20,420,899 times
Reputation: 4148
^

I think it depends where you live. Don't get me wrong I get your point and agree with some of it but if you drive around Pueblo and southern Colorado there are a lot of "small business" left and companies that employ less then 100 people still dominate the workforce here. Even many of the so called chain restaurants are locally owned and while not a mom and pop restaurant are small business and ran like one. Take a drive down Pueblo Blvd (Pueblo's version of Academy in the Springs) or 4th street (Pueblo's version of Colfax in Denver) and you will see what I mean. While there are big box stores and Pueblo is home to large companies like the steel mill there are a lot of mom and pop stores and restaurants who do a lot of the hiring and lately because of the banks and uneasiness of the economy many are not hiring new people and some are even closing. That is causing a problem for the recovery and why I like Romney's plan better then President Obama's.

Last edited by Josseppie; 10-05-2012 at 12:24 PM..
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Old 10-05-2012, 12:42 PM
 
Location: Wherabouts Unknown!
7,756 posts, read 16,499,096 times
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mfbe.....I read an article somewhere recently that a mere 147 super corporations essentially own/control most of the smaller corporations. And many of the smaller ones are household names that are really not very small. If I can find the article again, I'll post the list.
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Old 10-05-2012, 12:47 PM
 
Location: Wherabouts Unknown!
7,756 posts, read 16,499,096 times
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Josseppie wrote: I like Romney's plan better then President Obama's.

PLease do tell us, exactly WHAT IS Romneys plan, AND what is Obamas plan. Neither one of them have given the details. It's all high level goggledegook that could mean anything. Especially Romneys fairy tale of creating 12,000,000 new jobs. This is similar to the airheaded nonsense that Obama spouted 4 years ago....alot of nice sounding, fluffy slogans but no substance. People just don't get it....politicians will say anything to get elected, becasue they know that the voters are so utterly gullible, willing to believe anything they say.
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Old 10-05-2012, 12:55 PM
 
Location: Pueblo - Colorado's Second City
12,106 posts, read 20,420,899 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CosmicWizard View Post
Josseppie wrote: I like Romney's plan better then President Obama's.

PLease do tell us, exactly WHAT IS Romneys plan, AND what is Obamas plan. Neither one of them have given the details. It's all high level goggledegook that could mean anything. Especially Romneys fairy tale of creating 12,000,000 new jobs. We don't need 12 million more hamburger flippers.
You are right they have not given exact details on the plan as they really can't because who ever wins would have to get it passed congress and it would never pass congress as they said it now as they will have to compromise then they would be said to be weak or your typical politician etc. So its not the exact details I am talking about but how they discuss the economy and how they would improve it and from watching the last debate I just think that Romney has a better grasp on what is going on and what it will take to fix it. Don't get me wrong I like President Obama and think he is smart and on many issues right on but when it comes to the economy just does not quite get it on how to really improve it. I think you see that in what is going on in Main Street today.
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Old 10-05-2012, 05:15 PM
 
1,512 posts, read 1,532,393 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike from back east View Post
Count the number of chain eateries run by massive firms, count the number of mom/pop local independent eateries. Who wins?
Absolutely, and take it a step further. Who supplies those few mom/pop restaurants? They probably shop at Sam's Club or Costco for a lot of their stuff, and that makes them a front for those corporations. They probably buy the rest of their product from Sysco or another supplier.

Quote:
2. The peanut butter (PB) recall this past week or so. There is ONE plant in NM that packs all sorts of PB products for sale under scores of corporate names, from big supermarket chains to numerous labels you'll find in farmers markets, craft fairs, yuppified boutiques, catalogs and on-line.
This week, a Canadian slaughterhouse's product had e coli in it. That place supplies a third of Canada's beef... And the Sam's Club patties here in Colorado were recalled. They came from that producer.

Quote:
Small business is mostly a political myth; pols don't give a damn about the local dudes who mow lawns, wash windows, put a roof on your home or run your local service-oriented business.
I can't agree more. I think that's why it's so important for all of us to be learning constantly because we make the country, politicians don't.

Last edited by The Homogenizer; 10-05-2012 at 05:30 PM..
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