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Old 09-29-2012, 11:05 AM
 
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Today's New York Times ran an article about a less-famous Koch brother (the third one, not the two more well-known of "Koch Brothers" who is trying to arrange a land swap and get public lands deed to his own land, or something. I gather he owns a major employer in the area, a mine, and this is actually his home, or one of them. He is building a historic "Old West town" on his property, using both new construction and the remains of original buildings around the West.
I'd like to ask, what opinions people in that area or people who know about this situation... what do you think? What's going on?
I think I read about a similar situation outside the Black Canyon area outside Montrose- some big money person building on or annexing public land. I'd like to know more.

Last edited by Mike from back east; 09-29-2012 at 12:19 PM.. Reason: Added link to the story.
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Old 09-29-2012, 12:12 PM
 
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IIRC, this third (shy?) Koch Bros billionaire owns a coal mine in COLO, among other things, and is the Koch who just bought the attraction at Royal Gorge so he could get the small kiddie train ride that ran there. I'm not sure, but I think that place was Buckskin Joe's or something of the sort. My understanding is that he wants to move the train ride and/or other attractions to a property he owns for use by his grandkids.

IMO this is the sort of grotesque selfishness we see from some of the ultra-rich, i.e., buy up an amusement park ride for his own kids, denying that enjoyment to thousands of kids of us 99%ers or whatever we want to call the working class in this country. Why didn't the dude just contract to have all this stuff manufactured fresh and new, rather than buy a run-down old amusement park and pay to have it dismantled, trucked and re-assembled at his place? AFAIC, it's massive arrogance on his part and shows contempt for the masses.

This article confirms the deal for Buckskin Joe's. This piece in the Chieftain says Koch is building a private museum with all these attractions.
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Last edited by Mike from back east; 09-29-2012 at 12:23 PM..
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Old 09-29-2012, 12:18 PM
 
1,981 posts, read 3,039,745 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike from back east View Post

IMO this is the sort of grotesque selfishness we see from some of the ultra-rich, i.e., buy up an amusement park ride for his own kids, denying that enjoyment to thousands of kids of us 99%ers or whatever we want to call the working class in this country.
YOU are the one being selfish. If there is a demand for an amusement train, there will be one. Open up your own business venture and risk your own capital if you think that the demand is there.

Last edited by Mike from back east; 09-29-2012 at 12:27 PM.. Reason: Removed off-topic material.
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Old 09-29-2012, 12:28 PM
 
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There WAS an amusement part there, but the arrogant ultra-rich character bought it out from under us.
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Old 09-29-2012, 01:06 PM
 
9,816 posts, read 19,021,080 times
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I didn't realize some silly, old, creaky train ride at Royal Gorge was the most popular thing going in Colorado and now a cause de celeb. Nor was it is owned by the public, which it isn't.

If it's that important, I am sure people can put their capitalist and creative minds together and make an new ride or attraction somewhere else.

Sounds to me that some don't respect private property rights, unless it is their own property of course.

Some want to blow hard on this, but the fact is state and federal governments do land swaps or deals all of the time, so property owners can straighten out their property lines. It's no big deal, but some people have political agendas and an axe to grind, so they wail about this, when it's nothing new.
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Old 09-29-2012, 01:13 PM
 
9,816 posts, read 19,021,080 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike from back east View Post
There WAS an amusement part there, but the arrogant ultra-rich character bought it out from under us.
I don't see how he is arrogant. He might be ultra rich, but he grew his business which provides goods and services people want and people have jobs because of it. How mean of him. Maybe he should have got a job instead sitting at a desk with a rubber stamp for the federal government for 30 years, clearly that would have been more productive and prosperous. Imagine if we had the whole population with such a job, we'd be moving forward into a utopian future where everything would be created free and fair with cannabis fueled mind waves, a smack of a rubber stamp and a dash of solar powered pixie dust.
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Old 09-29-2012, 01:21 PM
 
9,816 posts, read 19,021,080 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike from back east View Post
IIRC, this third (shy?) Koch Bros billionaire owns a coal mine in COLO, among other things, and is the Koch who just bought the attraction at Royal Gorge so he could get the small kiddie train ride that ran there. I'm not sure, but I think that place was Buckskin Joe's or something of the sort. My understanding is that he wants to move the train ride and/or other attractions to a property he owns for use by his grandkids.

IMO this is the sort of grotesque selfishness we see from some of the ultra-rich, i.e., buy up an amusement park ride for his own kids, denying that enjoyment to thousands of kids of us 99%ers or whatever we want to call the working class in this country. Why didn't the dude just contract to have all this stuff manufactured fresh and new, rather than buy a run-down old amusement park and pay to have it dismantled, trucked and re-assembled at his place? AFAIC, it's massive arrogance on his part and shows contempt for the masses.

This article confirms the deal for Buckskin Joe's. This piece in the Chieftain says Koch is building a private museum with all these attractions.
Clearly the "masses" didn't have much use for Buckskin Joe's and the owner of it didn't have much use for it as well, which is why it was sold.

I don't see people as "masses". They are individuals, not serfs or subjects and people are free to do what they want with their own property as long as they are not harming others.

Koch already said that he will open his private museum town to school groups and others, but doesn't want to make it a big tourist attraction, which is his business. There are plenty of other collectors who don't want their collection public either.
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Old 09-29-2012, 01:56 PM
 
20,308 posts, read 37,797,930 times
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Spare us your standard screed about free enterprise. As he ages, this particular Koch Bro is moving into whack job territory, buying up stuff and shipping it to his private shangri-la and making land deals involving OUR public lands that it seems only the wealthy can get away with because they buy the favors of Senators and Presidents. It is arrogance and privilege of the worst sort and damn right well should be a cause celeb.
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Last edited by Mike from back east; 09-29-2012 at 02:40 PM..
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Old 09-29-2012, 02:58 PM
 
9,816 posts, read 19,021,080 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike from back east View Post
Spare us your standard screed about free enterprise. As he ages, this particular Koch Bro is moving into whack job territory, buying up stuff and shipping it to his private shangri-la and making land deals involving OUR public lands that it seems only the wealthy can get away with because they buy the favors of Senators and Presidents. It is arrogance and privilege of the worst sort and damn right well should be a cause celeb.
Who cares? He is a private citizen, not a subject of the state. It's his money and his property. No one tells you or judges you on how you choose to spend your dollars or where you choose to live. Who are you to tell him what to do and how to do it?

I buy stuff and put it on my property and clearly you do the same yourself.

As I said, the state and federal government do land swaps every day for the benefit of both the government and private citizens. Nothing new and nothing that has not been done before.

As it goes billionaires these days have bought tons of land and have worked to keep it pristine and the Koch's have done the same.
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Old 09-30-2012, 11:27 AM
 
Location: Colorado
486 posts, read 1,235,127 times
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Originally Posted by wanneroo View Post
Who cares? He is a private citizen, not a subject of the state. It's his money and his property. No one tells you or judges you on how you choose to spend your dollars or where you choose to live. Who are you to tell him what to do and how to do it?

I buy stuff and put it on my property and clearly you do the same yourself.

As I said, the state and federal government do land swaps every day for the benefit of both the government and private citizens. Nothing new and nothing that has not been done before.

As it goes billionaires these days have bought tons of land and have worked to keep it pristine and the Koch's have done the same.
Koch #3 brother bought up the beautiful, historic Buckskin Joe's town - that we as locals LOVED - and dismantled it for his own selfish use on a private ranch.

Part of the deal was also selling the adjoining Roryal Gorge scenic railway and that is shutting down this weekend. I went last weekend and there was a very heavy sad feeling in the air. I heard one guy, (maybe in his 30's) tell the old engineer "My dad brought me here when I was a kid..." and he broke down.

It is a HUGE loss for this community, all for the gain of one selfish rich person.

It's pretty sad that money can buy these nostalgic, historic things out from under the 99% of us. If I had the money I would have bought it and kept it open for everyone to enjoy!
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