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Old 10-19-2012, 12:18 PM
 
Location: Wherabouts Unknown!
7,754 posts, read 16,447,829 times
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jazzlover wrote: They don't understand the sorrow long-time residents of Colorado feel for what has already been lost.

Sorrow is an inside job. The sorrowful, long-time residents of Colorado spend too much time focusing on their perceived losses. If they thought more positively, their sorrow would vanish in a New York minute. Blaming their sorrow on newcomers is a waste of time that only prolongs their sorrow.
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Old 10-19-2012, 01:18 PM
 
Location: The 719
13,624 posts, read 21,483,824 times
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Sentimentality is a sin based upon pride... but it's also a state of consciousness which cannot be wished away anymore than a person with a cold can shake a runny nose on sheer will.

This takes spiritual action and the way or path above that state (apathy or sorrow) is grief, then anger then desire then pride then courage then acceptance... which is hot-tied to forgiveness... then neutrality then reason then love then joy then peace then enlightenment.
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Old 10-19-2012, 01:58 PM
 
Location: Pueblo - Colorado's Second City
12,099 posts, read 20,344,698 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzlover View Post
The "newbies" don't understand three basic things:

1. They don't understand the sorrow long-time residents of Colorado feel for what has already been lost. How could they understand? They never saw the way it used to be.
I am 39 and a 4th generation Coloadoan and I think Colorado has gained more then it has lost with the added population and transplants. So when you make statements like this you should use I statements as not all long time residents think the way you do.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzlover View Post
2. They don't understand how quickly growth smashed so much of what was great about Colorado, and how at risk what is left of Colorado's natural beauty and historic heritage really is from continued basically exponential growth, particularly in the 1970-2010 time period.
Again I think Colorado has gained way more then it has lost.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzlover View Post
3. They also don't understand that resource depletion and environmental destruction increases at a rate even faster than the population, especially in the area of water resources, destruction of streamcourses and riparian areas, and destruction of things like critical wildlife habitat.

Exponential equals:

It took from 1860 to 1940 for the state to reach 1 million people.

It 30 years to double to over 2 million (1970).

In 30 year it doubled again to over 4 million (2000).

It's now over 5 million. It would probably be even more, but Colorado's economic engine is starting to fail (thanks to the real estate bubble and the state's escalating fiscal crisis) as the state becomes more hostile to productive commerce and employment.
Colorado can handle the population we have the the expected growth we are going to have over the next 40 years. If I could I would give them a red carpet as I think a more populated Colorado would mean a stronger Colorado.

Finally one last thing you posted this:

Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzlover View Post

There are nicer places with a better overall quality of life at lower costs elsewhere. As much as I love many facets of the Colorado climate and the mountains, they aren't everything. There are other things that are also important and, at some point, those may override my vision of the "quality of life" in Colorado--especially when so many people are pouring into this state seemingly hell-bent on destroying what remains of the state's endearing qualities and growing the things that I hate about it at cancerous rates.

I am eagerly waiting you list of large cities that have a better quality of life then Denver!
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Old 10-19-2012, 02:34 PM
 
2,253 posts, read 5,834,746 times
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Wink Colorado as she might be

Change is a natural given. All does and will.

But it is not mere sentimentality to not welcome change when more negative than positive. Indeed, when this actually the case, rather psychotic to advocate or welcome that which does one harm.

As oft the case, change within Colorado in the last few decades has in measure been both good and bad, with this often defined subjectively. The population at historic highs provides more people the chance to enjoy the charms of this state; also, for all with decidedly more comforts, entertainments and services than the original European settlers could have dreamed of. Yet they had far more personal freedom than extant now, surely in many cases being appalled by what many put up with today (even in still envying some of the comforts); moreover, an intrinsic aspect of that liberty was no more than the greater space they had, with all that allows.

In example, consider that at its founding in 1915 that Rocky Mountain National Park saw about 30,000 visitors; today the number is 100 times that, or 3,000,000. There are now a few more comforts and charms in adjacent Estes Park, and it is easier to travel there from Denver and environs, but for what most travel to RMNP for little has changed—other than all being more crowded. At a guess, most visitors today on trail and elsewhere would welcome 2,970,000 fewer of their fellows in enjoying that wilderness experience.

This is definitely one thing that has been increasingly lost due growth. Even in the hinterlands there are far more vacation cabins and other infrastructure that in various ways limits one's access to and enjoyment of this land. At one time it was possible and common to take a Jeep and travel most anywhere one liked (or it could at last crawl), road or not. That practice was not always a good idea even then, yet illustrative of much else taken for granted at one time and now lost. At the establishment of RMNP, there were a number of private lodges within what would become the park. Those that stayed there surely enjoyed the experience. The removal of these may have been advisable for the betterment of all, but at one time hardly mattered (being rather the point). Estes Park itself has always been the haunt of elk, and for near time immemorial until recently, little else. Native Americans in the region used the area for hunting, but otherwise it remained untrammeled. One might imagine the expansive life that allowed, if as well hardships, and one common once across all of North America. The same mountains exist now, yet all within them divided subdivided, organized and monitored. Some may prefer an Estes Park as it is now, and its comforts, and in the exchange be willing to sit in traffic and so forth. Yet some remember another time, not really that long ago, when that the Arapahoe knew had already long been subsumed, but life in comparison to today was still slower, more mellow, less crowded, and to their sentimental self, preferable.

It is arguably fallacy to seek a touchstone in this from other regions in this land. With Las Vegas, NV for instance, some may decry the metropolis it has become, yet unwilling to return to the natural desert oasis it once was before any of that was built. Other areas of this nation will do as they will, but if they have made the same mistakes or even worse, then surely no good example or excuse for the same here. We are speaking specifically of Colorado.

Many come here based on dreams of a life long since lost in Denver, and barely hanging on in some more remote places. As said before, they come looking for one thing, and often to the extent found then set upon modernizing it into something akin to that they fled. Human nature, supposedly. Nor would most of those presently here be willing to live in a teepee. Native American tribes from the onset welcomed and sought the knifes, rifles and European trade goods exemplifying progress and a better life. Look to Leadville and other early mining camps, and the desire of everyone was for expensive imported carpet and crystal lamps, to whatever degree they might afford it. So the more modern expression in McMansions, trophy "cabins" and expansive SUVs is hardly much surprise.

Only in this age our generation and those to come have run up against some natural limits. Denver and its greater metro area of the Front Range with water, for one. We increasingly are in a position of destroying the very thing sought. When one must travel in a public bus to visit the Maroon Bells, rather than once as one liked with no dictates, quietly and quite possibly alone—then but another reminder of this change.

All will change, and Colorado evolve. The question remaining: in what direction? For those eager to embrace national standards of Ponzi scheme expansion, fracking all there is to exploit in earth, air, fire and water, and living the unsustainable good life bought dearly by ever more population—then their future is clear. As well excuse later, as what else could one do, as all changes?

Others might seek something more measured, and a better long term outcome. When they speak of some of the finer aspects of a former age not necessarily from only wistful sentimentality, but also wisdom. Of what once was, might be again, and should have always remained as such. Something that might be sought, aimed for, and perhaps realized through vision, dedication and hard work. Indeed, in the change of a transformed Colorado, one actually better.

Change is inevitable. But nothing written in the stars.

Last edited by Idunn; 10-19-2012 at 02:43 PM..
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Old 10-19-2012, 03:25 PM
 
20,302 posts, read 37,784,136 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Osito View Post
Hey all,

I just had a curious question for people around the rest of the state of Colorado. Fort Collins people, Boulder people, Colorado Springs people, mountain people, small-town people, Grand Junction people, Durango people, what do you think of Denver?

Do you like visiting? Would you visit a lot? Would you live there? Do you like where you live better than Denver? Do you dislike anything about Denver? Inquiring Denverite is just curious to know.
It's a fine city, certainly a place worth living or visiting.
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Old 10-19-2012, 10:22 PM
 
Location: 80904 West siiiiiide!
2,864 posts, read 7,095,361 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Osito View Post
Hey all,

I just had a curious question for people around the rest of the state of Colorado. Fort Collins people, Boulder people, Colorado Springs people, mountain people, small-town people, Grand Junction people, Durango people, what do you think of Denver?

Do you like visiting? Would you visit a lot? Would you live there? Do you like where you live better than Denver? Do you dislike anything about Denver? Inquiring Denverite is just curious to know.

Can't stand it. if it weren't for the Broncos games, I would never step foot in Denver.
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Old 10-20-2012, 07:12 AM
 
Location: Fort Collins, CO
166 posts, read 357,760 times
Reputation: 288
I can't understand why someone who clearly resents colorado transplants and all the 'damage' they do, chooses to post all the time in the Colorado relocation forum... ? Just a random thought...
We travel to Denver from Fort Collins for airport access and occasional concerts. Other than that, not much. The traffic is too much for me. Very frustrating. Considered Denver metro when we moved here in 2010. Many nice areas and cool downtown, but we wanted a smaller town feel.
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Old 10-20-2012, 07:25 AM
 
Location: Burlington, Colorado
347 posts, read 689,184 times
Reputation: 485
Quote:
Originally Posted by Josseppie View Post
I am 39 and a 4th generation Coloadoan and I think Colorado has gained more then it has lost with the added population and transplants. So when you make statements like this you should use I statements as not all long time residents think the way you do.

Ya, my wife and her entire side of the family has been in Colorado since long before the Great Depression... as have many people around here, and while not fans of the California influence, none of them have the attitude Jazzlover claims all old-times do. Birds of a feather flock together though.

Last edited by ohazco; 10-20-2012 at 07:39 AM..
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Old 10-20-2012, 10:26 AM
 
Location: Wherabouts Unknown!
7,754 posts, read 16,447,829 times
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Josseppie ( in response to jazzlover ) wrote: I am 39 and a 4th generation Coloadoan and I think Colorado has gained more then it has lost with the added population and transplants. So when you make statements like this you should use I statements as not all long time residents think the way you do.

Thanks for posting the other side of the story.
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Old 10-21-2012, 01:21 AM
 
Location: 80904 West siiiiiide!
2,864 posts, read 7,095,361 times
Reputation: 1543
IDK, jazz is right to a point. When I was a kid, I was taught to hate Texans from my parents, but I never knew why till I grew up.
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