Does everybody in colorado love colorado? (Denver, Boulder: house, layoffs, college)

[Idunn]

Do you feel the homes are over priced?
Not compared to San Ramon or other metro areas in California. Certain resort areas and towns such as Aspen are crazy but in general real estate is much more reasonable in Colorado than either Coast. Of course if this your primary consideration you might even do better in Kansas, something in the Midwest.

(Do you feel) jobs hard to find?
Yes. Compared to the Bay Area you likely face less selection and lower wages. But of course this depends on your individual circumstances.

(Do you feel) people rude?
Compared to what? You'll probably like it in comparison to the Bay Area.

Is the traffic bad?
Not unless you structure it that way. It could be unpleasant if, for instance, you were commuting between Colorado Springs and Denver, or within congested areas within the larger cities. But you should find it far easier to avoid such hassles. Just pick location of residence and job with this in mind.

Do any of you long for a move out of the state?
Some people do. Often because they simply wish to try a different lifestyle. No ocean coast here, for one. But you are unlikely to encounter the same broad reaching angst, of people wishing to flee, as present in many areas of California. It can actually be rather nice here.


One thing you didn't mention was the weather, and if you've only visited in the summer be aware that no part of Colorado will be as temperate as San Ramon come winter. Which might be nice, depending, but certainly different. You might find yourself in the novel circumstance of scraping ice off the windshield every morning and then dealing with a slow commute to work on snow packed roads. You might also find yourself paying higher than accustomed heating bills in winter and possibly the use of AC come summer. In other words, just different in some respects.

In moving you will almost certainly come to find various aspects of California that you miss, some unexpectedly so. In compensation you will discover aspects of Colorado unavailable elsewhere. But since you are thinking of this you have at least the inclination. Within reason what you envisage is reasonable and attainable here.

[Secluded]

Great post, nobody's business. I think you hit the nail on the head regarding Colorado on many levels. For some reason, I've seen way too many people here giving unreal expectations to people who are asking about Colorado, but most of your opinions are solid.

[Secluded]

Originally Posted by Idunn

Do you feel the homes are over priced?
Not compared to San Ramon or other metro areas in California. Certain resort areas and towns such as Aspen are crazy but in general real estate is much more reasonable in Colorado than either Coast. Of course if this your primary consideration you might even do better in Kansas, something in the Midwest.

You can compare many places to California, and it'll look like you're getting a great deal. I wouldn't use California as a comparison. Instead, try surrounding states like New Mexico, Kansas, Utah, Wyoming, Nebraska, etc., and Colorado will seem expensive.

[Secluded]

Originally Posted by nobody's business

Colorado has not been maintained well-bad roads and schools, poorly planned. (But maybe this is the case with all US cities these days-falling bridges, exploding pipes). It's blamed here on low taxes, but I don't think that is necessarily the case.

People should understand the traffic situation in Colorado before making a decision on moving here. It seems quite a few potential movers ask about traffic. Is traffic as bad here as Los Angeles, Orange County, San Diego, etc.? No, not yet. But things are getting worse and quickly. I am not exaggerating. All of the outrageous developments, especially in the last 10-15 years have really made an impact on traffic. As an example, things are already bad on Parker Road near the e-470 during rush hour, and development in the area is still growing. Sure, the next 5 years might be OK, but you must think long-term before making an investment on real estate property. As for me, this makes a huge difference as I do a decent amount of commuting. It affects the overall quality of life.

Yes, Colorado roads are very poor, especially compared to California. And planning ahead is unthinkable here. If you ask others who have spent a good amount of time in places like California, they would probably agree.

I know it seems like I'm dwelling on the negatives about Colorado, but I think most of the positives have already been covered by other posters.

[artdesignlou]

Originally Posted by elemental

As you can see from the gamut of answers here, there is no one place that is paradise to all. While I have visited many, many places, only NY has been my home prior to moving here. It is a rough place to live, rather diverse, has beautiful beaches and the population density to provide real opportunities to succeed. The corruption sucks; people you don't know are rarely nice to you at first glance, but the proximity to NYC means you're only a few minutes from anything you can think of.

After just returning to NY, I now see it in a different light. When I couldn't wait to leave, certain things about Colorado drew me here and thankfully, they were all exactly what I had envisioned. Long Island is a pretty humid place on a daily basis- being an island and all...- so upon returning, I realized that the humidity was nasty, but my nostrils were no longer dry. 85 degrees and humid there feels like 105 degrees here. The dry heat thing is nonsense unless you're in the shade- the sun here feels like a microwave on full, but I would rather have that than have sweat running down my back the moment I exit the car.

It's rather green there and the brown here is a stark contrast. However, it's easy to forget once you hit the mountains or any of the many lakes in our area.

The sunshine here really does wonders for the psyche. You don't realize it until you have spent 5 days in a gray climate complete with bad attitudes and crazy drivers. I love waking up each morning to see the sun's beautiful rays coming through the windows.

As far as wildlife, a friend of mine said recently "you live in the discovery channel". If you seek it out, the wildlife here is amazing and a sight to behold. Nevermind the 50-plus 14,000 foot peaks! About three weeks ago, we went up towards Jamestown hoping to see something crazy like a bear or a mountain lion. Guess what we saw? A huge bear bounding down a high bluff. We pulled out the binoculars and marveled at this creature. What a sight. Then, this evening, we ran up to Rocky Mountain National Park to see the Elk. Literally hundreds in a field with several males duking it out after bugling like mad. In the distance I see something relatively smaller move. Through the camera lense, I see three Coyotes playing. Unbelievable! Not long ago, we were on a hike in Boulder and at dusk 4 foxes were playing tag. If nature is your thing, the only place that might be better is the galapagos islands- or a permanent residence at the Sydney Zoo!

The people are light years more friendly outside of Denver, but even in Denver, they are far friendlier than downstate NY(on the whole). It is far cleaner here and that made me angry on my last visit to NY. With all of that education, all of the manpower paid for by $12000 property taxes, how can there be litter on the streets. Even in areas of considerable wealth, there was crap all over the street. Very disheartening.

So, you really want to make everyone happy? Here's how you do it: we need a set of tests like those administered by match.com which take into account hobbies, belief systems, education, dependencies, etc. and group all of the people by their scores. Like to hunt, fish, trap, the mountains and sleeping under the stars.. you live here in Colorado or Montana. Like the arts, classical music, fine dining, metaphysical experiences, LA or NYC are your two choices. How could you have a better neighborhood than one where many things in common cause more interactions, hence tighter neighborhoods? If everyone liked to play frisbee, there would be frisbees flying across the street at all times of the day. Think of it as a centrifuge for neighborhoods. What an idea huh??

In summary, make a list of what you would like in a home town, compare it to the one you live in now, then start exploring. The town/state that has the most matches wins. I figure if you can meet the bulk of your requirements, that will be one less thing to be unhappy about. Then find a therapist to work on the mental issues and you're all set! )

I think your idea about having some sort of match.com or e-harmony-like survey to help people figure out where to live. I am a New Yorker living in Orlando right now. I hate it here and am trying to figure out where the hell I would want to live. I miss the culture and excitement of nyc but not the out of control real estate, crowds, dirt, noise, etc.

[artdesignlou]

Originally Posted by nobody's business

Of course, the answer to this depends on a lot of things. A lot of places seem nice when you visit.

No. I don't think people feel very positive about Colorado. Some housing prices are low, but housing prices in good areas are high, as high as good areas in California. The wages available do not justify the housing prices and the job market is not good-hasn't been for 7 years.

Colorado has not been maintained well-bad roads and schools, poorly planned. (But maybe this is the case with all US cities these days-falling bridges, exploding pipes). It's blamed here on low taxes, but I don't think that is necessarily the case.

Service is terrible in Colorado, especially in places like Boulder-it's attitude at an altitude. (I live in Boulder and am looking to move.) I think places like Longmont are the most underated places in Colorado. It's about 20 minutes from Rocky Mountain National Park, is ten minutes from Boulder, and has great biking between the city and the foothills (around Hygeine-a lot of which will remain open land as has been purchased from development rights), has good housing with superb views-a lot of it newish. But still has a good little downtown and some old historic homes. Plus it has some exciting developments like Prospect (Dwell Magazine voted Prospect America's coolest neighborhood). But then it's got this awful turkey factory downtown and it's downtown needs some draw stores, but then again so does downtown Boulder which isn't doing all that well. I think Longmont will get better when the fast tracks goes in, the mall is redeveloped (it's been sold and that will be soon) and the 80,000 square foot olympic athletic center is built. Boulder is pretty, but a lot of the housing was thrown-up here in the 1970's and needs fixing. Frankly, I'd rather ride my bike or ski on the weekends. The Boulder City Council is corrupt. The roads aren't maintained well in Boulder. We get back ups from the sewers all the time because the city does not clean out tree roots, sweep streets, or mitigate traffic unless you happen to live in one of the neighborhoods that Boulder city council members live in. Lots of homeless (they built a great homeless shelter complete with radiant heat floors, so they come), people with psychiatric problems (they send them to the city on public transport from other cities in Colorado because they know boulder "liberals" will pay their medical bills). There are hundreds and hundreds of schizophrenics living on the city dime in Boulder. Boulder is hard to get around in. Very crowded. High density housing. The area around Whole Foods is a complete disaster and there have been punch outs in the Whole Foods parking lot. The cit council has approved 5000 new residences across the street from Whole Foods for the new fast tracks station, so it's going to get nasty there. The problem is going to increase dramatically in the next ten years pretty much ruining everything that was once nice about the city, though it is still OK now. My husband and I timed it and it takes five more minutes to get to work on 36 and Table mesa in Boulder from our home on the West End of Boulder than it does for us to get there from the south end of Longmont. If come to Boulder, look at it with a critical eye and think about what it will look like in ten years and don't talk yourself into overpaying for a house here. Real Estate agents from Boulder will not take you to places like Prospect/Longmont and you've got to work to maintain logic. Don't be charmed by the mountains alone because frankly there are a lot of mountain views, coffee shops, and trails in many cities along the front range. Boulder really doesn't have a monopoly on that though, inexplicably many people think this is the case, (these are usually the people who hang out in coffee shops all day receiving either a trust fund or a city benefit and don't have the problems that your average worker type will have, like having to get to a job and pay for housing.) Boulder people think this place is full of "independent" businesses-coffee shops like Bookends on the Pearl Street mall, but really that place is owned by one of the biggest developers in the city and you'd be better off spending your money at Starbucks. But Boulder people subvert themselves with that kind of thinking all the time. We're sort of deluded about the place we live in. Boulder does seem to be a good place for singles, though men there tend to stay single-citing their love of sports and availability of women and no need to settle down. So you can date, but maybe not mate here.

I see a huge difference between rich and poor in Colorado, particularly in housing markets. There are some people dumping three or four million dollars to do renovations to three or four million dollar houses on Mapleton hill in Boulder. Yes, it's a nice area, but that sort of housing isn't available to most people. The middle class is just a bigger populace in places like California and culture and society there is geared towards that.

Gas prices in Colorado are cheaper than California-it's running about 2.70 a gallon now, but food is more expensive. Shopping isn't great. I find things like furniture expensive, no Ikea's or anything like that-not much of an economy of scale I guess. Travelling in and out of Denver by air is expensive. United has a monopoly on travel out of DIA. Bargain vacations will be rare. Auto insurance is high, but I am not sure how it compares to California. I lived in Mill Valley years ago but moved here from Florida. My auto rates went up with Geico almost 200 dollars a year. And most importantly, the colorado lifestyle seems somewhat elusive to me. Traffic on I-70 to the ski resorts is horrible. I've spent 11 hours stuck in traffic coming back from Vail. How many weekends can you spend doing that? And lift tickets aren't cheap. No local discount or anything which you would expect as many ski resorts are technically state parks leased to resort corporations. But there is a lot of hiking close by.

Reading what I've written though, I am thinking that most of what I am talking about is true just about everywhere in the US now. Housing prices everywhere got run up too high. Is traffic "good" in any city? What about schools? Some places are better than others, but let's face it-my grandparents invested a lot in America and the baby boomers benefited. The baby boomers took and took and have spent a lot on what ? three wars and a dozen mini-wars. Taxes are not being spent on American infrastructure. I don't know if you can move and escape your problems. Frankly it's been my experience that they get you one way or another. If you pay less for housing, you pay more for energy or insurance or whatever. Though I saw what Enron and Arnold did to California during the energy crisis a few years back and I think corruption out there is taking place on a much larger scale because more money is at stake. With taxes and housing costs, I'd leave California. Not much of a benefit to putting up with that junk, even if auto insurance or energy is higher in Colorado.

If you don't move to Colorado, I'd avoid the south, except maybe central florida or vero beach which I also think is underated. Florida has this reputation as being trashy, but I've been to a lot of nice nature reserves and trails there. I read in the NY times that Atlanta is 90 days away from running out of water. What the???? If you've got the choice, you might consider Alaska. That sort of news is armageddon-like. It's gotten awfully hot in Colorado in the past five years. Even in places like Montana, the glaciers are about gone in the national parks. And they've got these weird hot spots in the ocean off washington and oregon...

The average person stays in Boulder two years before moving on. Does that tell you anything? Check out the Prospect development in Longmont. Google it on the web. The housing is nice and I've met two california people out there. One of them moved here from Mill Valley after spending a year travelling the country looking at places to relocate his restaurant because his Mill Valley landlord wasn't too nice. He went to Boise and I don't know where else. He told me once when I was in his diner, but I've forgotten. Anyway, after all the places he looked at, he settled in Prospect because he sees real potential there. I also met a LOT of europeans there. About half a dozen english people and I've only walked around the neighborhood. That is sort of a lot for one neighborhood. Anyway, I'm thinking about Prospect if I leave Boulder. Otherwise thinking about immigrating. If I was leaving California, I think Colorado it would have to be. But keep your expectations real.

I would discourage anyone to move to central florida. that's where I live now and am looking at other places to live. It's a different as colorado as you can get!

[hello-world]

just as another point concerning the people in colorado, take a look at the post on "adjusting to fort collins". a lot on how it can feel moving to colorado and sensing what some consider to be a peculiar "distance" in people here.

[rebagirl]

Originally Posted by hello-world

just as another point concerning the people in colorado, take a look at the post on "adjusting to fort collins". a lot on how it can feel moving to colorado and sensing what some consider to be a peculiar "distance" in people here.

I read the entire thread you're referring to, and I find this a bit discouraging. I'll be coming from Southern California, which has the reputation of being full of extremely rude, self-absorbed people. Yes, I have experienced this type, but most of the time I run into friendly store clerks, people who open doors for one another, people who smile and say hello, etc. Of course, the junior high and high school kids I see walking home generally keep their eyes focused on the ground, but hey, I can't expect too much friendliness from them, right? I certainly hope that a move to Colorado will be a positive one--and that people in general will have good attitudes. Wishful thinking? Perhaps...

[hello-world]

Originally Posted by rebagirl

I read the entire thread you're referring to, and I find this a bit discouraging. I'll be coming from Southern California, which has the reputation of being full of extremely rude, self-absorbed people. Yes, I have experienced this type, but most of the time I run into friendly store clerks, people who open doors for one another, people who smile and say hello, etc. Of course, the junior high and high school kids I see walking home generally keep their eyes focused on the ground, but hey, I can't expect too much friendliness from them, right? I certainly hope that a move to Colorado will be a positive one--and that people in general will have good attitudes. Wishful thinking? Perhaps...

i personally find it liveable. and it's not always all that overt, while maybe seeming quite fine for a while (maybe even forever). a lot of people here seem to think "live life loved, love life lived" or to maybe not have a lot of experience living in grossly different places or with very different people...which in the end can, to some, basically come across as superficial, flakey, clique-ish, etc.. it took me a few years to finally feel i could confidently say that there seems to be something cultural going on with it. but that's me (and a few others, apparently).

[fly free]

Thank you Artdesignlou for all that info. I am in Fl myself Clearwater/Tampa and I HATE IT. I want to move wes and CO was one of the states I am looking at. I hope that I can make it out there. I figure if I am going to be poor I may as well live in a beautiful place