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Old 11-06-2012, 01:32 PM
 
918 posts, read 983,514 times
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Why do I have the feeling that those who bemoan today's "lousy parenting" have never reproduced themselves?
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Old 11-06-2012, 10:36 PM
 
Location: Colorado Springs, CO
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That is inhumane.
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Old 12-28-2012, 10:49 AM
 
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I suspect those who bemoan lousy parenting and willfully choose not to procreate until the time is right are showing precisely the level of careful planning they are calling for others to utilize. Suggesting that they don't know what it's like because they didn't have kids at the wrong time is like telling a cop he doesn't understand that sometimes you just want to drive home after having a few beers.

With regard to the prison. It should be operated. There are plenty of people that need to spend time in Jail. We could have a a smaller prison population if we failed to catch criminals. Consider Mexico, lower prison population and they are using the army to fight organized gangs. Criminals deserve to go to jail. I'm disappointed they put a computer kiosk in there. The people in these cells are the worst type of people alive. They are not victims, and there are far too many of them. Does school reform help? Yes, it helps. However, it won't solve the issue that many must be jailed to protect the innocent. I would love to see the state of Colorado lease this prison out to other states that would like to have more of their inmates put in solitary. If there is a 1% chance the inmate will kill a guard, he should be thrown in solitary. He does not have the same rights. Computers allowing them to speak to people defeats part of the purpose of solitary. Prison is designed to do two things. Keep the innocent safe. Punish the offenders. Punishment is a core part of the philosophy. When you put a rapist behind bars, part of the reason is justice. Mercy to the guilty is cruelty to the innocent.
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Old 12-28-2012, 01:37 PM
 
Location: Coos Bay, Oregon
7,142 posts, read 8,840,949 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lurtsman View Post
With regard to the prison. It should be operated. There are plenty of people that need to spend time in Jail.
Did you even read the article? The prison wasn't needed. It wasn't asked for. Even after it was opened it wasn't filled. There is no demand for it.

What do you propose? That we tighten up sentencing requirements, just to fill up an empty prison?

I guess some people just love to build prisons. If you really want to cut down on crime you might want to consider improving our crappy educations system. So as to provide people with better alternatives, to a life of crime.
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Old 01-02-2013, 09:36 AM
 
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Kaaboom, I understand why you might facepalm initially. I did read the article. I don't agree that there is no demand. Zero demand is a very interesting mechanic from an economic stand point. I lived in some awful places over the years, and those places did not have enough housing for their criminals. I would suggest that some places in the country have inmates that they can not reasonably control. Some of the jails are severely over crowded. It would make sense to reach an agreement with those states that they send their long term prisoners to this prison and pay a per cost head for us to hold them. When they are being released, we will transport them back to the original location.

The idea of no demand conflicts with other reports of prisons that are severely over crowded and convicts being released because they can not be housed. I believe that HERE there may be a lack of need for the space, but I'm sure another state could send us a bus load of 20 inmates each doing a decade or more and too violent to be kept around the non-violent offenders. (A guy in prison for a white collar crime or recreational drug use shouldn't be kept with a convicted murderer.)

I'd love to see better systems to prevent crime, but seeing as we have this prison and other states have over crowding issues, it seems like renting it out would provide us with a source of local funding and jobs.

Edit to add links to stories explaining the conflict:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/0...n_1883919.html

http://articles.latimes.com/2012/aug...ornia-20120814
This one shows that California is attempting to ship prisoners out of state and still has not managed to get the problem under control. To me that says :1. California is currently a customer for this type of service. 2. California's desire to have this service has not been fulfilled, so they might buy more of it.
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Old 01-02-2013, 10:17 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lurtsman View Post
California's overcrowded prisons - Los Angeles Times
This one shows that California is attempting to ship prisoners out of state and still has not managed to get the problem under control. To me that says :1. California is currently a customer for this type of service. 2. California's desire to have this service has not been fulfilled, so they might buy more of it.
Except the prisoner category that CA is having trouble with is the general populace. Criminals who are locked up for drug charges, robbery, non-violent crimes, etc. Not prisoners who need to be locked up in maximum-security, solitary confinement that is provided by facilities such as this empty white-elephant.

This facility is meant for lifer's who need to be locked away and forgotten as they slowly lose their minds and descend into insanity. Unfortunately, such a facility is out of vogue right now. Sure the state could spend a few hundred million to refit this building, but I'd rather a better use of limited resources be found.

Hell, spend it on a North Front Range commuter rail, that would be a better use of such funding.
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Old 01-03-2013, 01:37 AM
 
Location: Sun City West, Arizona
22,055 posts, read 10,266,157 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzlover View Post
Unfortunately, the trend in prisons and education will likely continue. The reason essentially stems from the same cause: lousy parenting. Public education is in decline in the US because the schools have been transformed from a primary purpose of education to being a day-care center for children and to being a surrogate parent. They were never designed to be either, and the results are what we see today. Similarly, lousy parenting predisposes many children to exhibit criminal and anti-social behavior both in the schools and later as adults. The former decreases the educational effectiveness for the schools for all students, not just the miscreants; the latter provides the human fodder that increasingly finds its way into the correctional system. Until good parenting returns as a primary focus of people having children, the social problems of failing schools and proliferating prisons is going to continue. And, no, lousy parenting is not just a domain of the poor--from what I see, it's often just as common in the middle class and wealthy--the major difference being that the middle-class and wealthy criminals are often more able to buy their way out of trouble than can the impoverished. In fact, there are plenty of people of modest means who are still able to be fine parents; and plenty of the affluent who don't give a crap about their children.

Bluntly, too, Colorado has as high, if not a higher percentage of lousy parenting and dysfunctional families than anyplace else in the country.

As for the prison, I haven't seen much to convince me that the facility was not needed, just that the state funded its construction, but insufficient funds to actually operate it.
On the one hand, I agree with you that a child-care format is beginning to take hold in public schools. In my school back in Virginia I fought just that for several years before I was finally given assurances that the after-school care from 3-6 would be handled by people not working for our school. Where I disagree with your point ("they were never designed to be either"). Well, actually you're right, BUT, note that you spoke about the past ("were")...you know, that place where you consistently live. Although I don't agree with the trend in schools that we are talking about, I do believe in a little thing called democracy, and when a community votes (either directly or indirectly) to change the way schools are operated...then there's one thing more important than Jazzlover's opinion -- the opinion of the majority.

And, as to your comment that, "many children to exhibit criminal and anti-social behavior"..."many"??? How are you defining "many"? A teacher for 13 years, an administrator for 20. We always had a few kids that exhibited criminal or anti-social behavior...but never "many".
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