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Old 11-11-2012, 07:19 PM
 
Location: Bend, OR
3,296 posts, read 8,428,269 times
Reputation: 3321

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Quote:
Originally Posted by SoButCounty View Post
Yikes, didn't you guys learn anything this past week? Wrong topic.

<CMD-CTL-IGNORE>
You're absolutely right. I realized my anger got the best of me, as I took the bait. Now, to steer my posts back on topic as well, I think the citizens have spoken. I'm not sure where this will go, what effect it will have on the state as a whole, but I think it will be interesting to find out. More and more people are realizing that decriminalizing marijuana makes sense. It's a wise direction, IMO, whether you agree with it being harmful to your health or not. As others have pointed out, we need to fix our economy and this may very well prove to be a way to do that.

People are always going to do things that may be harmful to their health. Look at smoking, alcohol use, and junk food. If we focus on educating people about the side effects and allow them to make their own choice, then it's on them. Meanwhile, we can tax it and use that money for better things.
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Old 11-11-2012, 08:48 PM
 
1,059 posts, read 1,636,221 times
Reputation: 1928
Quote:
Originally Posted by wanneroo View Post
If you are satisfied that cannabis is the "magic herb" with no negative effects and you believe that, then smoke up.
I never said that, you assumed that. There's a huge gap between magic fairy dust and a direct proven link to cancer. Neither are true.

It's not up to others to prove your assertions. If you insist, then don't expect them to take you seriously. You can't argue a point to any degree if you're just going to tell everyone to prove it for you. That's up to you. You're just being lazy by asking others to argue your point, for which there is no proof regardless.

And if you're not trying to prove anything to anyone, why do you push your position when people agree? Either you are... or you aren't. Make up your damn mind.

Last edited by DurangoJoe; 11-11-2012 at 08:59 PM..
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Old 11-11-2012, 08:54 PM
 
1,059 posts, read 1,636,221 times
Reputation: 1928
Quote:
Originally Posted by wanneroo View Post
Yes we did. There are 60 million people who want handouts and free stuff and who have priorities in the wrong place, 58 million people who wants everyone to stop picking their pockets with more taxes and regulations and 120 million people that are too lazy to get out there and vote or learn about the issues.

Worrying about cannabis legalization and legislation when this country is headed towards 17 Trillion in debt is pretty laughable really.
That's not the topic here. If you can't even keep the topic straight, why would anybody pay any attention to anything you post?

I'd be glad to discuss this with you in the appropriate forum as I love nothing better than to debate an unarmed opponent, but your continued interjection in this thread is a pathetic waste of time.
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Old 11-11-2012, 09:33 PM
 
Location: Staten Island, NY
8,626 posts, read 7,053,500 times
Reputation: 8028
SoButCounty, just wanted you to know that the site won't let me give you anymore reputation!
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Old 11-11-2012, 10:42 PM
 
9,830 posts, read 19,539,435 times
Reputation: 7604
Quote:
Originally Posted by piyf View Post
Instead of the sky falling go look at the Netherlands. Soft drugs are decriminalized there and drug usage is lower compared to the USA where it's illegal. Yes it will be used by more people at the beginning but will go down as time moves on. I don't know where you grew up but cannabis was 10x easier to get than alcohol for me.

Marijuana does not severely inhibit the normal, stable social interaction between human beings. It actually does the opposite. Some of the greatest minds this world has ever seen smoked cannabis. Does that make them bad people or less as a human to you? Why is it they were able to accomplish so much on a plant the government puts right next to crack cocaine? Why does the government say cannabis has no medical benefits yet own a patent on it?
The sky is falling in the Netherlands. They are tightening up their laws as we speak and making changes as drug dealers have overwhelmed the streets and the drug tourism business has gotten out of control. The changes could end up banning foreigners from entering cannabis cafes. There are a variety of local laws on the books now as well as national ones being formulated. In addition many towns and cities are finding ways to shut down cannabis cafes.

Cannabis is NOT decriminalized and never has been in the Netherlands. Possessing it or cultivating is still a crime, just that law enforcement overlooks small quantities.

The big issue is that cannabis is not what it was 40 years ago. The THC levels are off the charts in comparison and the Dutch and their long known tolerance is running out with all the potheads stumbling around in a stupor on the streets.

So it's kinda of funny, the Dutch let it slide for a while like Colorado is trying to do and it ended up being a bigger problem then before along with a huge cost to the community. More drug trafficking, more drug dealers, more potheads in a stupor, more health issues.

Cannabis does inhibit social interaction between people because it impairs their judgment and motor skills. It's a drug that has an effect on the brain and not a good one either. The "greatest minds in history" were not potheads. And if they did smoke pot, it wasn't the refined drug it is now with skyhigh THC levels. Cannabis is about 40 times stronger now than the plant used in the 1960's by pothead hippies. As I said previously potheads seem to think they are these enlightened whimsical people thanks to pot, they just don't realize that it sounds like incoherent babbling to those of us that are sober.
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Old 11-11-2012, 11:32 PM
 
3,103 posts, read 2,838,843 times
Reputation: 4029
Sorry Wanneroo, but your info re Amsterdam is out of date

They are recanting on the whole idea - sighting the loss of tourist dollars and strengthening of the black market.

Amsterdam Mayor Says Coffee Shops Will Remain Open - NYTimes.com
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Old 11-11-2012, 11:52 PM
 
Location: Springfield, Ohio
12,193 posts, read 10,378,565 times
Reputation: 11206
Quote:
Originally Posted by wanneroo View Post
The sky is falling in the Netherlands. They are tightening up their laws as we speak and making changes as drug dealers have overwhelmed the streets and the drug tourism business has gotten out of control. The changes could end up banning foreigners from entering cannabis cafes. There are a variety of local laws on the books now as well as national ones being formulated. In addition many towns and cities are finding ways to shut down cannabis cafes.

Cannabis is NOT decriminalized and never has been in the Netherlands. Possessing it or cultivating is still a crime, just that law enforcement overlooks small quantities.

The big issue is that cannabis is not what it was 40 years ago. The THC levels are off the charts in comparison and the Dutch and their long known tolerance is running out with all the potheads stumbling around in a stupor on the streets.

So it's kinda of funny, the Dutch let it slide for a while like Colorado is trying to do and it ended up being a bigger problem then before along with a huge cost to the community. More drug trafficking, more drug dealers, more potheads in a stupor, more health issues.

Cannabis does inhibit social interaction between people because it impairs their judgment and motor skills. It's a drug that has an effect on the brain and not a good one either. The "greatest minds in history" were not potheads. And if they did smoke pot, it wasn't the refined drug it is now with skyhigh THC levels. Cannabis is about 40 times stronger now than the plant used in the 1960's by pothead hippies. As I said previously potheads seem to think they are these enlightened whimsical people thanks to pot, they just don't realize that it sounds like incoherent babbling to those of us that are sober.
None of those are reasons to keep it illegal. Also, the issues found in the Netherlands are due to it being the only country which allows coffeeshops to exist. Likewise, if more (or hopefully, all) states decriminalized its use, there would not be streets filled with potheads falling overthemselves anymore than there are currently drunks falling over themselves all over the US. There would be no need for "weed tourism" within the US & Canada and it would be the more open/tolerant society the laws intend.
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Old 11-12-2012, 12:07 AM
 
9,830 posts, read 19,539,435 times
Reputation: 7604
Quote:
Originally Posted by Colorado^ View Post
Sorry Wanneroo, but your info re Amsterdam is out of date

They are recanting on the whole idea - sighting the loss of tourist dollars and strengthening of the black market.

Amsterdam Mayor Says Coffee Shops Will Remain Open - NYTimes.com
Amsterdam is not the Netherlands, it's a city in the Netherlands. It's not out of date. Read what I wrote again:

"They are tightening up their laws as we speak and making changes as drug dealers have overwhelmed the streets and the drug tourism business has gotten out of control. The changes could end up banning foreigners from entering cannabis cafes. There are a variety of local laws on the books now as well as national ones being formulated. In addition many towns and cities are finding ways to shut down cannabis cafes."

Even read your own article. They are not "recanting on the whole idea" across the country. It is very much in flux with debate at the national and local level, along with a variety of national or local laws that are proposed or already implemented.

And that in fact is a wrecking ball on the whole pothead hypothesis that the Netherlands is a decriminalized cannabis paradise where it is no issue at all. There is issues which is why it's a topic of debate now in the public forum over there.

In addition the black market is running at full tilt in the Netherlands with drug dealers and trafficking being rife. Loosening up the rules and regs hasn't changed a thing for the Netherlands, which is as I said earlier in this thread. In Colorado, there will still be tons of underground sales, trafficking and organized crime involved.

If you talk to people from the Netherlands, from what I found they are fairly liberal, but they are also starting to blanch at the problems arising from the "do whatever you want dude and damn everyone else" attitude. Not just from their own Dutch citizens walking around in a stupor, fornicating in public or drunk off their rear, but from attracting many others from around the world seeking the same thing.
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Old 11-12-2012, 12:12 AM
 
9,830 posts, read 19,539,435 times
Reputation: 7604
Quote:
Originally Posted by Natural510 View Post
None of those are reasons to keep it illegal. Also, the issues found in the Netherlands are due to it being the only country which allows coffeeshops to exist. Likewise, if more (or hopefully, all) states decriminalized its use, there would not be streets filled with potheads falling overthemselves anymore than there are currently drunks falling over themselves all over the US. There would be no need for "weed tourism" within the US & Canada and it would be the more open/tolerant society the laws intend.
It would be one thing if we were talking about hamburgers, but this is a drug that impairs you and alters your state of mind. We already have serious societal problems from alcohol, so why add more drugs into the mix?
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Old 11-12-2012, 01:11 AM
 
13,297 posts, read 25,484,841 times
Reputation: 20410
Quote:
Originally Posted by aquietpath View Post
Not a crock. Especially for arthritis, with no bad effect to your liver like NSAIDS will cause.
Sorry. I shouldn't have used that language ("crock"). I guess I've spent too much time working in detox and stuff and not enough time talking to people who have genuinely found cannabis to medically help them.

There was a cartoon in today's Boston Globe showing a dying man and someone saying to him, "I can't help you commit suicide but I'll give you a joint."

Voting down by 51-49 "right to die" bothered me a lot more than any MJ issue.
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